Fromm?

[amy]

I have e-mailed Bryan Neiman with the article that has now been taken down.  In it, I ask very specifically how they know their ingredients are not subject to these chemicals and whether they are doing any testing for it.  I will let everyone know if I hear from him tomorrow.

[Javas Mom]

Amy, don't get discouraged if you don't get an immediate reply from the customer rep. My first two emails were answered within 24 hours, assuming because they were common questions and the rep had the answers on hand. Last week I emailed my concern that their minerals in their wet (as opposed to the dry) were listed as sulfates rather than the preferred chelated forms (proteinates). I was starting to get a little put off because I waited a week but finally received a response with an apology for the delay because she had wanted to actually direct the question to one of the nutritionists or biochemists or someone of that nature. I really liked the fact that she went to the trouble to actually go to an employee who could give her the answer to my question rather than simply a cookie cutter answer. I was reassured that they indeed have started using chelated minerals for a while; just not updated their can labels yet. I'm sure up until 5 weeks ago they never expected consumers to go over every single ingredient under a microscope so using old outdated cans was a non-issue.  I hope all companies NOW realize we've all become informed consumers and they better step up to the plate. Point being--hang in there; it may take more than the usual 24 hours to get a response to this highly unusual situation with the "missing article," which he may not even be aware of, and I bet there will be more than one email about it.  I look forward to your posting his response (and am hoping for the best!)
Also, on a positive note, spoke to my good friend this weekend who is a breeder of Birmans and Siberians who began Fromm's wet and dry three weeks ago and all of her cats are thriving.  (with this thread being read 243 times, I'd hoped more users would respond about their experience with the food.  )

[rchow]

I have switched both of my cats to have Fromm 4-star nutritionals Salmon Dry cat food less than a week ago.  They like it immediately and they seem to be good so far.  The reason I chose this is because one of my cats are older and need to have something that's easier on the kidney.  I am looking for quality dry food that has low phosphorus, low sodium and moderate protein.  When I did my research, the web site claimed that the phosphorus is .80%.  I looked just now to type this email, and noticed that the web site has changed to 1.0%.  .08% is one of the lowest ones I have identified so far other than California Naturals (.79% according to its web site).  The batch I got has the expiration date of 2/13/08.  I am still in a search to see if 1.0% of phosphorus level is suitable for older cats with "wear and tear" on kidney.

If anyone knows of other cat food that has low phosphorus level, please share your thoughts.

[bixlo]

I have fed the small bag of DUCK A LA VEG and they really liked it.  I chose Fromm's
while waiting for orders of Felidae and Kumpikat.  Out of the 3 the cats like the
Kumpi best.  The female likes the Felidae but the male doesn't.  Fromm's would be
a good back up food for me - they were doing fine on it.  The male's allergies went away pretty fast (he gets a swollen lower lip and won't stop licking and he did after I switched from Natural Balance (due to the recall) to the Fromm's while waiting for
other orders.  I'll keep him on Kumpi and her on Felidae and see how it goes.  They are both still eating Merrick wet (half a small can a day).

[mgt818]

I got this in an email today. 

(I cut and pasted it below)

Thank you for your email and the opportunity to address your concerns.

Our statement released on our website is to inform general consumers.  The
portion that you questioned was added to make the point of out sourcing to
China because we are receiving a lot of concerns regarding our canned
product being made in China.

What is important to focus on is the truth. 

We make all of our dry kibble product here at our own plant in Mequon,
Wisconsin the same way we have since 1949. 
All of our ingredient suppliers for the dry recipes are well known, long
term, and trusted North American suppliers.  The ingredients we get from the
suppliers are grown in North America or Europe, there is nothing from Asia.

Additionally, we do not use ANY glutens.  We use only whole grains and
fresh, real, human quality meats.

We do not purchase or use sub/fraction grains like gluten to enhance our
protein levels.  Therefore we are not using any of the ingredients affected
by the recall.

As for China, yes it is true that we do use a human food facility in China.
This is a facility that produces human food products used around the world.
It is inspected and regulated by a total of four different world government
bodies, and is also Kosher certified.  These stringent applications will not
be found anywhere else in the pet food industry.  This is why, our canned
recipes are safe, and literally human edible.  Even the vitamins and
minerals we use are exported U.S. Pharmaceutical Grade. 

[bixlo]

Sounds great.  Backs up my cats being completely happy and healthy while eating a small bag of the dry the last 3 weeks.  I will keep Fromm's around as a back up food, no doubt.  As to wet, for now I am sticking to Merrick's although I really like the can design of the Fromm's.. ha ha.. It's different than all the other cans sold (being made in China probably accounts for that).

Thanks for sharing the information!

[lacy]

So did I read in this post that their meats come from china. Does that mean the Duck meat and Turkey Liver in the Dry duck cat formula? I would like to sample this for my kitties.

[bixlo]

So did I read in this post that their meats come from china. Does that mean the Duck meat and Turkey Liver in the Dry duck cat formula? I would like to sample this for my kitties.

No no no.  If you go back and read the letter from Evangers that a poster included above
it's very specific that the dry kibble is made using North American ingredients.  So don't worry
about the dry - it's all U.S made.  The letter goes on to say that even the China plant that
produces the wet uses pharmaceutical grade supplements from the U.S.  I'm still iffy on the
China canned goods so i'll stick to canned from Merrick and maybe Evangers if they ever get
tired of Merrick (which doesn't look like they will).

[amy]

I received a prompt reply (the next day, which was a Sunday) from Bryan at Fromm Foods, regarding my last e-mail to him.  (see previous post)

Here it is:

I read the article you included with your email and I am well aware of
practices certain ingredient suppliers use in order to artificially enhance
their products.

All of our ingredient suppliers are regularly inspected by the FDA which
includes inspections of the food they are feeding to their livestock. If the
animal feed they were using was laced with melamine it would appear in the
FDA's routine tests.

Additionally all of the fish, beef, and poultry we use are inspected upon
arrival to our plant and are extensively tested for melamine and many other
things to ensure that they are 100% safe.

And finally once our products are produced they are inspected once again.
This is required by the FDA.

It is not possible to use US suppliers exclusively because not all of the
ingredients exist in large enough quantities to export to China. Remember we
only settle for the best quality ingredients available, we would not be
interested in 2nd rate beef from the US if we have choice beef available in
China. The choice beef in the US is given priority to US manufactures and
there is not enough left over for export to the Chinese market. This
fluctuates depending on demand, for example the majority of the chicken we
use is imported from the US for use in our products because we have an
abundance of chicken in the US.

We are absolutely NOT cutting down on costs using Chinese ingredients. We
buy our top quality ingredients at market price. If there was a difference
in quality between US tuna and Chinese tuna we would use the ingredient of
greater quality given we had the option to. Luckily in the realm we deal in
there really aren't any measurable differences in quality when dealing with
choice ingredients for the human food market. Once you start looking at pet
food grade ingredients the differences can be stark and quite scary as you
are reading about. The US has much better systems for regulating the pet
food industry compared to China, but even the US system for pet food pales
in comparison to the human food industry regulations in either the US or
China.

We would love to be producing our products here in the US, it is very
expensive for us to travel to China during the year to run our products and
it is very hard educating the average consumer about how our products are
made and with what quality ingredients especially with all the recent
headlines. I assure you we are actively looking for a plant in the US to
produce our products but until one exists we have to either stop making our
cans at all or produce them where our quality standards are met.

My family's company has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to
animal nutrition. We are one of the first companies in the world to be
producing canned dog food in a human food plant. Unfortunately this type of
forward thinking comes with many obstacles, and one of those obstacles is
finding quality human food plants that have the equipment and are willing to
produce food for the pet food market at their facility. We refuse to produce
our products in anything less than safest conditions with the highest
quality ingredients possible. My dad would not accept anything less since we
are not using our own equipment (unlike our dry food which we make at our
own plant with our equipment.) Frankly, pet food plants scare us and they
have for many many years. Unfortunately it took a catastrophe like the
current recall to send a wake-up call to pet owners but I think now things
can start to change for the better.

I admire your pursuit for information and I hope you are aware we are much
the same way. We do extensive research in all areas when making products.
This includes suppliers, processing facilities, and even the people we
decide to conduct business with.

My family is extremely proud of our 103 year old company and we wouldn't be
around today if it wasn't for my family's hard work and dedication to
providing the best products we possibly can while maintaining our integrity.

_End of e-mail


So, once again, I find that they are very upfront and willing to answer difficult questions.  Now, how does everyone feel after reading this?  I am curious if you feel comfortable feeding the wet food in particular, or have reservations.  My cat is still eating it, and loves the food, so I am at a crossroads when it comes to the ingredients being from China.

I would appreciate responses to the e-mail I received.

Amy

[Javas Mom]

Amy, I was once again impressed with the lengthy, well-explained response you received. What I also find very interesting is that in researching the internet about this same concern, I've bumped into other people's posted emails from him...although every one has the same explanation and philosophy, the email itself is always quite unique. By that, I mean he actually takes the time to address your concern rather than sending out a "canned response."  In sum, his explanation sounds logical to me and I am reassured a little more everytime.

Cupid has a dental cleaning which will require the routine blood work in several weeks. By that time he will have been eating Fromm's wet food for about 8 weeks, so I'll actually be getting a report back on what his creatinine and BUN levels are at that time. That will be the ultimate reassurance. As if the fact that he's the most energetic little mischief-maker in the house isn't proof enough.

[judyM]

I just bought a can of Fromm shredded chicken and a can of tuna & chicken.
The label states Vitakim K supplement, but the web site ingredient list does not show it.  Also, I was given a sample bag of Duck a La Veg--and the ingredient label states "rice gluten,  and Menadione (vitamin K supplement).  Has Fromm always claimed to not use any glutens?  There is no experatioin date on any of the sample bags.  I haven't called the company yet--wanted to ask ya'll if anyone knows if the rice gluten and Vit. K are recent deletions??

[rchow]

I have switched my cats to Fromm's 4-star nutrition Salmon for about 2 weeks now.  So far so good.  They like it.  I feed them with Wellness can foods also.  I also tried to introduce the California Natural Chicken and rice to my cats.  They prefer the Fromm's, doesn't really want the California Natural.  They always pick Fromms Salmon if both food are put side by side.

I like both products as both are quality food as far as dry food goes, and the phosphorus level is relatively low (Fromm .8%, CN .79%)

[judyM]

 
I called Fromm again yesterday afternoon, as they had said they would get back to me within 24 hours--they did not.  Twice spoke with "Carole" who said she e-mailed my inquiry about Vitamin K listed as ingredient on cans of Shredded chicken (cat) and  Tuna & Chicken (cat) to their nutritionist-but he hadn't contacfted her back, manufacture dates of January 2006.  She said Brian was not in the office.  I also sent two emails-both yet to be answered.  Poor response from this company.

[Javas Mom]

Judy, I had sent an email to Fromm's last month questioning specifics about their minerals. This, too, had to be deferred to the nutritionist, of course. It did take a week to get back to me on it but I guess I can understand the delay as I'm sure the customer reps don't have daily contact with the nutritionists, who I'm sure have a lot on their plate right now. Hopefully you, too, will get a response back on your question within a reasonable period of time and then you can post it here for us who are using Fromms.

I'm also curious to know what the concern is about Vitamin K...I know it's for blood clotting and an article on peteducation.com states, "Vitamin K toxicity due to oversupplementation has not been reported in animals."

[himimom1254]

I just got some sample bags of Fromm's dry cat food (salmon and duck a la veg).  There haven't been any postings for quite some time about this food so I'm wondering if people are having good luck with this food or just thoughts in general before I feed it to my cat.

Was there ever any resolution with the company about the rice gluten and Vit K that was listed on the bag?

My sample bags doesn't contain an ingredient listing since they were out of their regular sample bags, they made some up for me.

Thanks