Itchmo Is Starting To Censor their Forums

[Geff]

Apparently they've gotten scared of lawsuits. We may see a migration here soon.
While I certainly understand if Ben has a concern over being sued by a large corporation & their minions (aka attorneys), I still find the censorship unacceptable

http://www.itchmoforums.com/cat-food-experiences-by-brand/posting-rules-for-cat-forum-t1489.0.html

[Davis]

If they come here, then I will leave.  I have never cared for that crowd and the overall demeanor over there.  It's a good place to look for information, but they tend to get carried away with things at times.  I would never post there. We do have a few posters here who also post over there, and they have been wonderful (i.e. Jenny), but that forum is generally distasteful to me. We have also lost posters here who have moved over there.  That is something I cannot understand. 

Thank goodness for The Pet Food List.  In my opinion, this is a much better forum.  Thank you Therese!  Geez, if they all came here, what would she have to do, set up a "ring"?   By the way Geff, what are you doing posting over there anyway?   Are you being unfaithful to us?    

[Geff]

I'm posting at both. However, if they really follow Justme's new rules, I'll likely be banned from Itchmo's forum by tommorow! I ask questions. I give answers. I post opinions. I post weblinks. I post emails to & from pet food companies. All are against their new rules.

My interest is getting as much information to as many people as possible so we can save lives. As I recently posted, a small local pet store I previously held in high regard was in total denial about the Natura situation, partially due to lack of info.

I registered on their forum recently after discovering the large amount of info on Natura there. I'm not leaving here, though, this feels like home! (and the folks here are kind enough to put up with my occasional rants, which "Justme" has also banned!)

[Davis]

I haven't banned anybody yet.   

Perhaps that's part of the problem , except sometimes the wrong people are banned and not ones who really should be.  I've seen that sort of thing happen.

This must be how rumors get started.  Darn.

There have never been any rumors here about Itchmo that I know of. Paranoia runs deep.   Just kidding of course.  The blog and the information put out there is highly respected.  The forum on the other hand.....? 

Seriously, just the Dog and Cat Food Experience boards have been set up for basically just the facts.  What food you are feeding or were feeding and how well your dog or cat did on it.  We wanted a place where people could post and not be questioned/challenged/intimidated by other posters and would not have to search through 60 pages of a topic.  Threads get off topic so easily.

Although I find most of your rules in that section a bit too restriction, such as "no discussion", I'm comparing apples and oranges because this forum is set of differently, with the brand foods having there own forums.  I personally would not be interested in only posting my experience with a food, without any discussion, feedback, questions, or responses.  That seems to defeat the purpose, but at the same time I definitely understand your point and why you've done this.  I really like these 2 rules:
"There will be no overt praise lavished upon a pet food company, its owner, food etc"
"DON'T post in a topic and then talk about every food but the one you are in."

This one confuses me a bit:
"Absolutely NO claims are to be made FOR or AGAINST any food without ABSOLUTE PROOF, veterinary  certificates, lab results, statements of fact, evidence etc."
I'm assuming it is not meant that you can't say your pet is doing well on a food, or that the pet did not do well, and explain why and what, etc, without having evidence, certificates, etc?? How else are you to give your experiences?  And how do you make sure people are honest?  You can't, which is why it's up to the reader to be able to filter these things.  I think the problem is that sometimes people make far-fetched or poorly thought out claims, and the do a poor job of explaining their reasoning, so rules like this become necessary.  Most of us scoff at miracle claims the moment we read them, as well as the "my cat threw up last night, oh my God, I'm freaking out...I took him off the food immediately...it must be toxic".  Utterly silly.

Hope this clears things up.

Well thank you Samantha.  Most of us are familiar with both forums.  They started at about the same time, and most of us chose one or the other at that time, or are at least dominate in one. I'm quite happy to be here.  I love the way Therese has set it up, and for the most part, we haven't had any real problems that require extreme measures.  But then you already know that, since you've been around here. 

[dingbat]

"Absolutely NO claims are to be made FOR or AGAINST any food without ABSOLUTE PROOF, veterinary  certificates, lab results, statements of fact, evidence etc."

Davis

Hope I can clarify this for you.

In the 2 weeks that we have been doing this, there have been cases where someone would post something similar to the following

brand x killed my dog, they should all burn in hell, their food is crap, the company is full of a$$holes etc.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Most people didn't see it because I deleted it immediately. Then the poster sent me a PM, calling me names, etc.

So the rule was created.

What we are looking for there is, substantiated proof. However since this forum was originally meant to be a easily searchable place to get information any proof would then go into another forum, by a link, where it could be discussed if anyone wanted to. So it would look something like this.

Brand x killed my dog see following link for info, proof, etc

"link to another forum where discussion would be"

This way the forum would not get clogged with the discussion, like so many of them have.

We encourage you to list your food, and experience, but name calling, is out.

Conversely the same applies to overt praise and recommendations, would could be misused by said organization. We are not scientists, lab techs, etc so we can't really recommend one food over the other. We can only relate our experience.

Some thing to keep in mind, the pet food companies are watching these forums constantly, there was a case on Friday, someone posted something negative about a particular food, almost immediately a company rep put in a response. THEY ARE WATCHING US CONSTANTLY.

So the liability increases, and don't think for a minute that they wouldn't just love to shut us all down.

These are some of the reasons for the rules in those 2 forums only.

In the others the similar rules apply, but less strict.

I am sure that if someone here posted slanderous statements about food without proof it would be censored also.

These are the facts of life in our society, I don't like them anymore than anyone else.

So you are all welcome to put your experiences there but it will be up to the 2 of us as to what stays. Every rule there has come from the experience of the last 2 weeks. Also keep in mind we have over 1200 members there many of them new, I have no idea who the troublemakers are, who has been sent by a pet food company to disrupt things, who is who??

hope this helps

db

[dingbat]

I'm posting at both. However, if they really follow Justme's new rules, I'll likely be banned from Itchmo's forum by tommorow! I ask questions. I give answers. I post opinions. I post weblinks. I post emails to & from pet food companies. All are against their new rules.

Geff

That simply is not true.

The rules only apply to the food forums, not the whole site. I have seen your posts and they are fine with me. I have seen you post all of the above and there is nothing wrong with any of it. Just don't want the emails to and from in the food forum, trying to make it easy to navigate. There is nothing wrong with putting a link in your food forum post to direct to another forum where discussions can happen.

It is not our intent to censor or remove anyone, just trying to moderate, which if you ever did it is not an easy job, or nothing like I thought it would be.

[Geff]

Dingbat, I didn't originally fully get the part about only 2 forums being effected. That makes sense.

The one problem I have there is that Itchmo's forums are so large I often follow links & don't even know which of the forums I'm in! (unfortunately I'm being serious here).

I was trying to explain this to a friend last night, one of the things that really sucks about our legal system is that if 1 corporation with lots of attorneys accuses someone of almost anything, we're screwed.

As David Bowie sang, This Is Not America.

On the one hand, I'm glad the pfc's are aware of us & monitoring us; now if they'd just use their customer's (i.e. US) feedback constructively...... I hear your concern that rather then fixing the problem they want to silence the messenger.

In the USA, our entire system is so broken.

[dingbat]

The one problem I have there is that Itchmo's forums are so large I often follow links & don't even know which of the forums I'm in! (unfortunately I'm being serious here).

Geff

That is the reason that we moderate the food forums, otherwise they become like some you mentioned, can't find anything, way off topic, and make no sense.

With the food forums, we set up stricter rules and Justme and I moderate daily to MAKE sure it doesn't get that way and it hasn't.

One of the things to keep in mind there is that if discussion was allowed, it would start to drift off topic and before you know it, everyone is talking about all kinds of food, problems, what the cat did that was so cute, etc. and then the whole thing becomes worthless.

There is on topic now that has over 73 pages, it started out on topic but it goes who knows where now. I don't even try to read it.

Itchmo has over 1200 members, some of which have never been on a forum, have no idea of etiquette, etc. The only way we could keep the food forums readable was to do what we did.

As to our wonderful, great, legal system, you have hit the nail on the head.

Everything we do on these forums is monitored, like I had written above, this member posts a complaint, within 2 minutes there is a company rep. responding. I put disclaimers on everything but that still doesn't stop them from legal action. Typically these large corps have attorneys on staff, usually with nothing better to do. They would love to shut us all down.

Oh well, it is the way it is, and in knowing that we can prepare for it.

db

[Therese]

I haven't been in Itchmo in ages though so I don't know what all goes on over there. Unfortunately, even though one of the so called freedoms this country was founded on is freedom of speech, that isn't always the case, and lawsuits happen. So, from the explanation given, I can certainly understand the moderating policies over at Itchmo. It's sad that it has to be that way though!

Things are more relaxed over here, partly because there are fewer members, but I have removed posts and banned a few members. We too have some rules and if they're violated appropriate action will be taken.

Therese

[dingbat]

partly because there are fewer members

Therese

To give you some idea, back in May there were maybe 600-700 members, latest is over 1200 and growing daily. Itchmo himself does not really censor unless it gets really bad. The influx of new people is the scary part. We have no idea who they are, what there agendas are etc.

So to keep safe it is better to err on the side of caution.

There have been a few posts on the food forums, if I hadn't deleted them immediately I am sure there would have been a lawsuit.

I always remember that anyone can sue anyone for anything. Whether they win or not is another story, but MOST of us can't afford the legal fees, big biz can.

Freedom has become a relative function, relative to who is doing what to whom and how much money that whom has.

db

[Davis]

Hi dingbat,

Thanks for the clarification.  I completely understand why you had to do what you did over there.  I have seen the types of posts you are referring to, and I think most of us with any sense understand why it was necessary to make those rules.  I'm just grateful that, so far, we have had a much more friendly, peaceful, and sensible group (only a few bumps in the road on occasion), and I hope that never becomes necessary here.  I am also glad they are watching!  Maybe they will learn something. 

[Geff]

I am also glad they are watching!  Maybe they will learn something. 

The talk of the PFC's monitoring itchmo gave me an idea. Probably won't do any good, but I started a thread over their called "An Open Letter To Natura", & posted the following:

"When April's recall's started, I went through a month long nightmare trying to find a safe food that my cat could tolerate (he has severe allergies). We finally discovered your wonderful California Natural Chicken & Rice dry.

My cat has been thriving on it. A life long spinal hyper sensitivity is almost completely gone.

I've been told that many pet food companies are monitoring this forum. So I ask of you, please help me to feel that your current food is safe to feed my beloved kitty. Natura, If you're reading this, I suspect you've read the over 1000 posts about concerns with the safety of the food you've manufactured this year.

PLEASE fix the problems rather then denying them & PLEASE recall any even remotely suspect batches.

My kitty really wants to remain your healthy customer."

[Davis]

Bravo Geff!  Great letter.  I hope they take it to heart.

[dingbat]

Probably won't do any good, but I started a thread over their called "An Open Letter To Natura", & posted the following:

Geff

can't hurt

Good idea, what is the worst that can happen, takes up some space on the hard drive. Maybe you will get a response, I know that one company responded to a negative post in 36 minutes. So we know that they are watching. Maybe you can get a positive result.

good luck

db

[GreyGhost]

I just seen this and can't believe the timing. itchmo has gotten way worse at the censoring thing. They have banned several longtime members and newbies for no reason and no warning at all. I couldn't believe it. I had been a member for over a year with no problems at all. They started a new moderator group and "new" rules that pretty much say you can't post anything that might upset anyone else. Come on, everyone can't agree all the time. The admin refuses to take responsibility for the moderators actions so here I am. I no longer have anything to do with itchmo.

Of course this is just my opinion only......