Testing for Acetomenaphine

[mgt818]

Hi Guys,
I wasn't sure where to post this but since I contacted Natura and I feed my kids Innova, I thought I would post it here. 
I was wondering if anyone has contacted Natura about testing for acetomenaphine and the other toxins besided only melamine and cyanuric acid?  (ammeloride, ammelorine, aminopterin)
I contacted them the other day to ask them but the representative with whom I spoke to said that since they test for cyanuric acid and the results are negative, the other toxins would be negative as well since they seem to be in conjunction with each other.  I am a little bit nervous about this because now from reading an article on Itchmo, some people who have sent their foods to be tested (so far only Pet Pride and Science Diet) have come out positive for cyanuric acid and acetomenaphine but negative for melamine.  I know that Kumpi states on their site that they test for the ammeloride, ammelorine, and aminopterin and of course the melamine and cyanuric acid.  But Natura only states the melamine and cyanuric acid.  Also, I found a person posted on Itchmo in regards to having called Midwest Labs which test for Natura) about their testing and he said that they are not capable of testing for acetomenaphine in their laboratory.  I wonder if they have the capacity to test for the other toxins?  Anyway, just a bit worried here... as I did notice my dogs drinking a bit more water lately and urinating a little more.  Could be just because of the warmer weather though, you think? 
Sorry for rambling, but if anyone has any experience with contacting or acquiring any info on this, if you would be so kind to post...

***Sorry if I misspelled anything!!***

[mgt818]

Well, I don't have any new news about the acetomenaphhine, but I was just nervous about the lab reports on the Large Breed Iams Dog food in Itchmo.  They said that they had the food tested at several labs and that Midwest Labs (where they test Natura products) test results came back negative but that Expertox test results came back positive. 
I called Natura again today to ask if all batches were tested at Midwest Labs and they said that they do their own testing in their facility and use Midwest Labs as a back up.     She said that all of their tests have come back negative.  She wasn't sure if all of the batches tested, or how often they test at Midwest Labs.  She said that they believe that the ammeloride ammelorine, aminopterin, acetomenaphine would be negative if there is  no evidence of cyanuric acid.    (Im not sure if that is correct info or not)  Anyway, the reason I am getting nervous is because my dog started drinking a lot of water recently and then going to urinate in a hurry.  I had just had them tested at the vet about 2 weeks ago or so.  This particular dog doesn't drink water too often so I usually have to give her a cup of water in her dry food.  Then, another one of my dogs starts drinking a lot of water too... 
I explained this to the rep. I spoke to and she said she is going to send me information on how to send them a sample for testing.  She asked me for the lot numbers and everything.  I only have about 2 cups left...  I do have another bag I bought on Friday.  Its from another batch.  I started feeding the new one since Friday, and it seems as if one of my dogs is drinking a little less water... the one that doesn't usually drink much.  She also seems to be urinating less...  the other one is still drinking a whole lot.  I give them purified water and feed them Innova adult dry.  Occasionally I will give them organic veggies and meat.  I just haven't given them any for about a week...

[lacy]

I started getting nervous when I read that about Midwest Labs on Itchmo too. I feed all my animals Natura foods. Apparently Midwest labs uses GC/MS for testing and the Texas lab uses LC/MS/MS which is a new more sensitive way of testing. That makes me very very nervous that Midwest labs wont catch the toxins unless it is an extensive amount.

And why does Natura need a backup for testing?

[mgt818]

That makes me very very nervous that Midwest labs wont catch the toxins unless it is an extensive amount.

And why does Natura need a backup for testing?

Yes, me too!!

I am not sure about the backup thing, maybe they tested once or periodically to make sure they are safe??  Also, I don't think that their in house lab is as equipped as a "laboratory business" would be... would you think so?  I don't know. 

[mgt818]

Maybe it would help if we all send emails or call them to voice our concern about the lab methods used, they have been very good about keeping on top of the recall stuff and keeping the public informed...  Although I don't ever get a quick response through email... in fact I think I have only gotten 2 responses of the many that I have sent them...   

Who knows maybe they consider using the other method you mentioned (LC/MS/MS)

[lacy]

I agree. We should call. I dont ever get fast email responses, but can always talk to someone as soon as I call. I also think they have done a great job keeping on top of the recall. They always listen to what we have to say.

 I was under the impression that they used Midwest labs to test for the toxins. I didnt know they tested in house for those things. Thats very odd. I wouldnt trust that, but then again Im not sure I trust Midwest labs now either. GRR.

[mgt818]

I agree!  Of course that is all information given to me by one rep.  So who knows...  (Sharron I believe was her name, but don't quote me on that) I also get a very quick response everytime I call... that is why I would rather call them.

I think that they do use Midwest labs to test for the melamine and cyanuric acid, I am not sure how often, or if they test at the midwest location for every batch though.  She said they use it to back-up their own lab test results which are done in their facility.  She said that they test each batch in their in-house facility.

[Karen V]

A user has sent in California Natural to Epertox, it came back clean.  There is no acetaminophen in Natura products.  Take your dogs in again - if there is nothing wrong with the bloodwork, then you are crowding the boards with nothing.

If you are really concerned about your pet food SEND IT IN YOURSELF TO GET TESTED.  Geesh, people.  Others are doing it.  That's how this all got started.  So send your samples in yourself (instead of guessing - which this is all it is, there is no proof WHATSOEVER in what you claim).

I am on disability, I work for no pet food company.

[mgt818]

Karen,
Can you point me in the right direction as to where the user that posted that he/she sent in a sample of CN to Expertox and it came back clean is?  I have never read such post here...

[lacy]

Mgt818,
I just found it. She meant an Itchmo user I believe. Its under the Itchmo forums. 

http://itchmoforums.com/index.php?topic=779.0

[guluju]

A user has sent in California Natural to Epertox, it came back clean.  There is no acetaminophen in Natura products.

Please note the Ichmo poster did NOT have the California Natural tested for acetominophen. She had the lab test for melamine, aminopterin, cyanuric acid, amilorine and amiloride only.   See the link below for the post.

http://itchmoforums.com/index.php?topic=779.0

[garypen]

Also, just because CalNat came back clean doesn't mean that other Innova products automatically are. CalNat has far fewer ingredients than other Innova products, and other pet foods in general. So, less chance of a tainted ingredient. (Another reason to use CalNat vs other brands or even other Innova products.)

BTW, has anybody read any theories of how acetaminophen finds its way into pet food?

[Sharron]

Garypen, you make a good point about CalNat having fewer ingredients for potential contamination.
I emailed Naturapet just a few days ago from the Innova dry cat food page, told them I was glad they tested for melamine and cyanuric acid, and asked if they also tested for acetaminophen.   I received this response a couple days later (copied and pasted directly from the email):

  We can assure you that there is no acetaminophen in our products.  All of our products are safe and non of them are involved in any of the recalls.  Please view itchmo.com for the newest information on the FDA findings on acetaminophen and how they tested the same food and found no traces of the substance. 
 
Thank you,
Customer Service

Evidently Natura trusts the FDA enough to give acetaminophen testing a pass.  While I'm glad Natura apparently reads Itchmo, it's obvious they missed the point that Itchmo isn't buying the FDA's take on  the acetaminophen poisoning, and that not everyone is as reassured.  I wrote back, but since I had inquired just to satisfy my own curiosity rather than because my kitties are having problems with their food, I didn't call, which probably would have been more productive.   But I would feel better if Midwest Labs could test for all the toxins and to the same levels as ExperTox.    That said, I am okay right now with feeding my kitties Innova.   They'll be going to the vet this week for routine check ups.
I would also be interested in hearing theories of how acetaminophen got into the pet food...

[robfdavis1971]

I know that Kumpi states on their site that they test for the ammeloride, ammelorine, and aminopterin and of course the melamine and cyanuric acid. 

I was glad to see that as well. I think it is a good idea for companies to post their lab results! I talked to Evy just the other day and she is testing for many other toxins, but the list was way too long to post them all :-) From what I hear it is very expensive to run these tests - but I think it is something that should be happening with ever company.  I hope other companies, especially the mainstream companies, take her lead and start posting their results as well. Not sure if there is much incentive for them...I see so many people still either have no clue or they heard about the recall and just don't think much of it since it hasn't personally impacted them. I just try to spread the word to visit these sites so they can get good information on the recall.

Take Care!

Robert

[Perseus]

I know that Kumpi states on their site that they test for the ammeloride, ammelorine, and aminopterin and of course the melamine and cyanuric acid. 

I was glad to see that as well. I think it is a good idea for companies to post their lab results! I talked to Evy just the other day and she is testing for many other toxins, but the list was way too long to post them all :-) From what I hear it is very expensive to run these tests - but I think it is something that should be happening with ever company.  I hope other companies, especially the mainstream companies, take her lead and start posting their results as well. Not sure if there is much incentive for them...I see so many people still either have no clue or they heard about the recall and just don't think much of it since it hasn't personally impacted them. I just try to spread the word to visit these sites so they can get good information on the recall.

Take Care!

Robert

Newbie here, catching up on all these great posts!  Took a look at the kumpi website, seems like there's only one batch of adult dog food tested on 6/11 from the test report.  Doesn't look like they test all their food or test on a regular basis.  If they do, shouldn't they show more than one test? This makes me think they don't test on a regular basis even though they say they do.  I don't think one test is good enough any more.