Innova Senior and Lite for Cats

[Davis]

Davis, I don't know a lot about CRF - but I know a lot of people use this web page as an excellent resource for information.  It also has links to other sites.

http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm

Thanks for the link Jenny!  I've actually seen that site (it's a good one), and just about all of them at this point. All the cats that I've had since my childhood have all died from renal failure, so this is a particular focus for me.  For those of you interested, here is an article on the subject, with some interesting theories on CRF diets:
http://www.catsofaustralia.com/cat-kidney-disease.htm

I guess after all I've read, for various reasons I still have not resolved this in my mind.

[garypen]

]I hope Natura doesn't drop their plans to discontinue with Menu if the canned sales don't fall off enough.

That was exactly what I was thinking.

Perhaps we need to get all of the Natura users to send them emails inquiring about the new facility, and mentioning how they won't be buying Natura canned products until that time.

[jenny]

Sorry to hear that Davis.
Gary - me too.  They have added some posts to their web page recently:
http://www.naturapet.com/about-natura/news.asp
(May 17 - fact sheet - Natura already owns our own dry food plant and has pledged to purchase or build our own canning facility.
May 23 - Natura Pet Products Adds Cyanuric Acid Testing to its Quality Control Program)

[garypen]

They seem pretty proactive about their products' quality and safety. I feel pretty good about feeding my cats Natura products.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Davis;
How many cats have you had since childhood who have died of renal failure?

[Davis]

Hi Cindy.  I've had 3 who have died from it. Thanks for asking. Two were the same age and died within a year of each other.  Even though they lived long lives, renal disease begins years before, and it affects the quality of their lives and their well-being long before they pass away.  It makes them very sick toward the end and they suffer horribly. It's very sad.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Davis, yeah it's happening too often in cats now....I wonder now if that's THE thing that causes cats to die now.

I especially worry about rescued cats, since one can't know what kind of crap they were eating before you got them...you know?

One of my cats was born on a horse ranch rescue, and didn't come to live with us until she was 7 years old already. All the cats there were eating whatever was donated to them from the Target stores after they did inventory and took off the shelves "unsaleable" foods. The ranch owner would send somebody to pick up a truckload of that stuff every month.

If that was unavailable, then they got whatever the volunteers (who are mostly inexperienced at animal care) would bring along.

I used to buy the Kirkland's premium dry cat food for them when that happened, but that was only once in awhile. When I worked there, there was about 16 - 20 cats there at any one time.

Then one morning Luna came up to me and "asked" for help as she was severely infested with fleas and her hair was falling out. So here she is now 2 years later. She looks like a completely different cat...very healthy looking for one thing.

I wish somebody would do a study on CRF in cats to determine if that's what kills most of them eventually.

[Davis]

Cindy, I've been fortunate that I've had all my cats since they were kittens, so I know their eating history (not that it has helped them).  My vet told me that cats are prone to kidney disease because they are purely carnivores and protein is hard on the kidneys, so then what are we supposed to do?  Carbs are not good for them.  Ugh!  If you think about it, most of the domestic cats dying from this disease are not even eating a strictly carnivore diet, but have reduced protein levels already.  There has got to be something more to this.  It seems that cats have sensitive kidneys to begin with, then toxins and other factors eventually take their toll on their kidneys.  Although my cats did not die young, I would have wanted them to live a better quality of life the years preceding their deaths, which they did not.  CRF is often a long. slow, deteriorating, suffering process.  One of them had renal disease for 8 years before she died, and suffered many health problems.  I guess in terms of my current cat, CRF is my biggest fear, because I feel like there is no way to prevent it.

[mel_t]

Cats are prone to kidney disease because, with feeding of dry food, we are keeping them in a constant state of dehydration.  (read www.catinfo.org - she addresses kidney disease) Dr. Hodgkins does not put cats with kidney disease on a low protein diet.  She has them eat canned food or raw.  I've read about using "phosphorus binders" too.  and she does prescribe a medication for certain cats in CRF. 

another important thing to note - she has said (based on years of evaluating lab results of cats on canned (low carb) or raw food, that she considers kidney values (e.g. BUN, Creatinine) of 20-25% above "normal" ranges to be normal for wet-fed cats, because of the higher protein intake.  So the reference ranges that labs use, are basically based on dry-fed, high-carb cats.

Here are some collected articles and info on kidney disease:
http://www.felineoutreach.org/EducationDetail.asp?cat=KidneyDisease

I will do some digging and see if I can come up with some of Dr. Hodgkins' posts regarding treatment of CRF

[Davis]

Thanks for that info Mel.  Did you see the link I posted above that has the same theories that you are talking about?  However, I had a cat die from kidney disease that did not eat dry food.  There are some other factors as well.  Toxins are certainly a big one. 

Please tell me how I can get this strange cat of mine to transition to wet food.  I put him on dry food years ago at the advice of a "vet"!!!!  Disgusting! And now he hates plain meat.  I tried to feed him some chicken this morning and he started gagging after it got in his mouth and spit it up.  He thinks it is getting stuck in his throat.  He never returns to try it after this happens.  I've been through this over and over throughout the years, to no avail.  Any advice would be much appreciated.

P.S.  This thread is getting too far off topic.  Mel, if you have any suggestions, could you please start a new thread on another more appropriate board?  Thanks!

[Cindy Nevarez]

I've heard that "protein is hard on the kidneys" is old school.

It's even been discussed here on the forum that it's old school. I can't say since I have not experienced that yet (surprisingly!), but I do know that when I replaced my cats carbs with quality meat, their other health problems have gone away. The only thing I can't "cure" in my old one is her arthritis.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Ha...that must be why vets can't agree on whether protein is "hard on the kidneys" or not.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Davis,
I can't remember, did you say you tried Evangers whole mackerel with this cat?

[jenny]

I have read this about dry foods on several web pages - linking dry foods with an increase in CRF.  Several reasons cited - low protein content of most dry foods, non-animal forms of protein, lack of water.  I have now just switched two of my three cats to all canned food. 

Here is another good link related to dry versus canned food (Maxhouse):
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#Dry_Food_vs_Canned_Food.__Which_is_reall

[Davis]

Davis,
I can't remember, did you say you tried Evangers whole mackerel with this cat?

No, I haven't tried that.  I've only tried sardines, and he won't touch them...won't go within 10 feet of them.  I use to periodically feed mackerel to my cat of the past (you're right about the smell...I remember that vividly), and she loved it.  She only liked wet food, and that is what she got, good quality foods, but nevertheless she ended up as CRF victim.  I haven't tried any of the Evangers yet, but they are definitely on my wish list.  I fixed my cat some fresh chicken again last night, and this time I smashed it up and added water to moisten it until it became a nice yummy mash.  He licked at it briefly, and then that was the end of it.  I tried to entice him again later, but when I put the plate near him, he gagged and ran.  Sigh....

Jenny, the Maxhouse link is an excellent resource.  I posted that here when the forums first started.