JUST TODAY CHANGE OF INGREDIENTS

[Davis]

Gary, I'm glad you checked the analysis "before" the change. I've been trusting another source for this, so I had not checked it.  I know the reason for the change would be ecomomic.  It always is.  However, there is a thing called demand in ecomomics, and there currently is a huge demand for high quality, albeit more expensive foods.  So, economically speaking, it makes no sense to me....unless we are all living in a bubble and they know something we don't, such as that most people just don't care about the ingredients.  Then what is left for people like us?  Nothing.  Again, I would prefer that they leave the food alone and pass on the costs.  I know there are economic intanglements from their perspective, but I don't even want to get into that.  I simply want a good food.  Under the current circumstances, changing a food that people feel comfortable with and have intentionally switched to seems pretty ridiculous and counterproductive to me. 

As for the rice, I was referring to a higher total grain content replacimg a good portion of the protein, which means it would cost much less to add extra rice, but if their analysis can be trusted (hmmmm) then I guess that has not changed.

[Davis]

Geff, you're container is probably okay, but I think you will find the information very enlightening nonetheless.  It's in the cat health discussion forum.
http://thepetfoodlist.com/forums/index.php?topic=267.0

[garypen]

CN C&BR formula's mocerate (for a dry food) carb level was one of the reasons I chose it to begin with. Most other dry foods are much higher, 40% carbs or more!!! Even CN's own Herring and Sweet Potato dry food is 40%.

[Geff]

FYI, I was just talking with a friend on the phone who's in the raw food camp. I mentioned this ingredient change to her, & she said she BELIEVED she had heard that unlike people, white rice was good for animals. She wasn't 100% certain of this, but did believe it to be true.

This really does have my curiosity up. My (selfish??) attitude is please don't mess with the 1 safe (I ASSUME) food I've found that my cat will tolerate!

[Tommyboy]

The rice thing is weird. Probably not harmful, though. What concerns me is anything they list as proprietary, and how often are those ingredients subject to change. I read the ingredients list, but really, they could put anything under natural flavors. And if there is a high demand for brown rice in the markets for humans, how often are your cats going to eat white rice in this food?

[Caylynn]

There is nothing wrong with "chemicals" per se.

Everything on Earth is composed of chemicals.  Natural flavours are chemicals.  Artificial flavours are chemicals.  Our bodies are composed of chemicals.

The foods that we (and our pets) ingest are composed of carbohydrates, proteins, and fat, all of which are organic chemical compounds.  Water is an inorganic chemical compound that we (and our pets) require for health.

Natural chemical compounds are those found in nature.  They are not produced in a lab.  Artificial chemical compounds are created in a lab.

But they are all chemicals.  We and our pets are living creatures composed of a variety of chemical compounds.

[Tommyboy]

Well if you say chemicals in the cat food is ok, then so be it. I know it contains a reduction of chicken, and it is supposed to be very similar to creating a chicken stock in my own kitchen, but what is added to it? And why? Why does it need natural flavoring? And are the components of natural flavoring safe for kittens in long term use? If they get sick, can it be traced to natural flavoring chemical compounds? Do they test this stuff on animals? If so where? CalNAt? The flavor company? Is it humane? Caylynn, you are a biologist, can you answer that? Nobody from CalNat is replying. I dont think.

[lacy]

It is unclear to me whether Lacy suddenly changed bags of food when she noticed a difference in health, or whether she has been feeding the same bag all along and then noticed the ingredient change and connected it to the illnesses.  It is also unclear how long she has been feeding them the CN food.  For example, did she just start on it a couple of weeks ago, or has she been feeding it for a while.

Hey guys. I havent changed bags. This is the first bag I have ever used. They have only been on it about a week and a half. I had just been checking the ingredients on the website since everyone keeps "changing" the labels. My kitties were on the Venison and Brown Rice NB food before and since they added in that rice protein without telling us, I have been a bit paranoid about the labels. (I had them tested after that and they were fine) I was hoping CN would never change...  It does bother me that they tell everyone to send in a cup of the bag for testing if any animals show any bit of illness. Maybe not bothers me, but concerns me. Almost like they might know something could be wrong. Again that could just me being paranoid. None the less, I still feel more comfortable feeding this food than any other food, and am not sure what I would switch to if it got recalled. This is the only food that I havent heard any complaints on and I have researched EVERY food. Oh yeah, another that bothered me is that I asked the lady if they found something wrong with my sample, if they would recall the food, and she DIDNT KNOW! I could have just been speaking with an uninformed person, but I would have hoped the answer would be yes. Maybe someone else needs to call. Im not very talented at digging for answers.

Thank you guys for being so concerned about my kitties. No one has thrown up any yellow liquid today, or anything at all. So I am very happy about that. Wendy, that was drinking all the water yesterday hadnt had too much today, but I will see how the day goes and might taker her in just to be careful, if it continues. Frank who has the eye goop and swollen eyes is having to wear an e-collar for a few days, poor guy, and Cooper is scared to death of him. Hiding and shaking like I have never seen before. He had never had anxiety before, but he has a cataract, so I bet Frank looks like a lion to him. He hasnt eaten since Sunday night, I am hoping its ONLY becuase he is scared and not because of the CN. Im having to force feed him some baby food. Anyway..sorry for the long post!

[garypen]

Geff -  I don't think white rice is UNhealthy for people. It's a perfectly fine source of carbohydrates. (depending on the method used, of course.)

But, from everything I've read, one wants to keep carbs to a minimum with cats.

Tommyboy - Almost ALL dry foods use flavoring. Often, it is simply chicken fat. The flavoring is generally sprayed on to the kibble to make it more desirable to cats. The extrusion process itself produces a sort of  flavorless kibble. Without the sprayed on flavoring, most cats wouldn't eat most kibble.

Imagine shredded wheat vs. frosted mini-wheats. I'll take the mini-wheats over the shredded wheat every time.

[Davis]

Lacy, thanks for the update.  I hope your kitties get better.  Actually the story about the eye collar is a bit comical, with your other cat hiding from this contraption.  Poor fraidy cat.  At least it gave me a laugh...a little stress relief.   

I don't like the answers that lady gave you either.  And the fact that she didn't know if they would recall the food if there was something wrong with it is very disturbing.  So, did you send them the sample?  Are they going to test it and report back to you?  Please keep us updated on what you find out.  I have felt really good about this food until now, and although I'm not going to change anytime soon, I most definitely don't like the fact that their responses don't sound very confident or reassuring.  Does anyone know if they out source their ingredients?

Tommyboy, you make a good point about the term "proprietary".  I wonder if this means they can or will stretch the term "rice" to mean anything related to or derived from it.

[Tommyboy]

I doubt that Davis. Proprietary was a term used with the natural flavorings. They might switch the brown rice for white rice like you guys were saying, which is bad enough. I just wonder alot lately what really goes into stuff(even junk I eat!), thats why I question the whole natural flavor thing, as benign as it may be.

[Tommyboy]

And this food is not the ONLY ones who use that particular language.

[Cindy Nevarez]

You know I think that word "proprietary" means exactly that. And also I think they say that when they themselves don't know anything for sure...since if they are outsourcing they can't speak for what they are getting from someone else unless it is self-tested. That's why when I called Orowheat and GardenBurger, they didn't hesitate about telling me about their ingredients...since they are certain of where it comes. On the other hand I get the run-around (and that same word) from companies who outsource since they haven't actually tested it....or even looked at it apparently.

But I suppose each company has their own excuse for wanting to use that word...for whatever suits THEM I might add.

Also, notice the Kumpi foods and B to B people haven't been giving us that 'proprietary' crap.

[lacy]

Im glad I can give a little stress relief!! We all need that right now! It is hilarious that way he is acting. I mean its not even a big e-collar! Today Frank just walked casually into the room Cooper was in and he started trembling and flew up, ran up the wall and continued to run around the house...well I guess Frank thought it was hilarious and started to chase Cooper around the entire house in circles! At least 6 laps!! Whats even funnier is the Cooper is  a huge Maine Coon and Frank is a little domestic kitty! Such a sight! 

Ya know, Im not sure Im going to send in the sample. I am going to wait and see how everyone is doing for the next few days. I hope thats the right decision. About the outsourcing, she said they didnt get anything from China. Another lady from there told me everything was from U.S. Im just not sure. Other people have gotten better asnwers from them than what I have gotten.

[Davis]

Thanks for clarifying that Tommyboy.  I thought you were referring to the rice, and that you had read it was proprietary.   But I see what you mean about the natural flavor.  It sounds like that ingredient may be outsourced, and I wonder about other ingredients as well.  Maybe we need to call them and get some straight answers, from someone who knows more than that lady Lacy talked to.