Garlic in Back to Basics

[Caylynn]

I've always heard that garlic is toxic to cats.

Some people also claim that yucca is toxic, although the food I feed my cat contains it, so I have no problems with it in a cat food.

However, the presence of garlic concerns me, since everything I've read suggests that garlic and cats don't mix.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Yes, garlic is on toxicology lists for cats, as is alfalfa. Yet those are routinely put in the foods. I still can't find any lists with Yucca on them....likely because it's a relatively novel idea to add it to pet foods right now, the lists are not updated fast enough.

You see that's the problem I think...that when people say that this or that herb or supp. is good for them, and it suddenly gets popular, then pet food companies think people will more likely buy their food if they see those same supps. that they like are in the pet food too. It just goes to show you that they are not necessarily checking to see if it's ACTUALLY good for the pet...they just want the money.

[Beowulf]

From www.backtobasicspetfood.com:

Garlic has been used by holistic vets for decades as a natural flea treatment and antioxidant. For thousands of years Gasrlic (Allium sativum) has been used for medicinal puposes. The Egyptians, Greeks, Babylonians and Romans used the healing properties of garlic. Records show that the Sanskirt used garlic medicinally about 5,000 years ago and it has been used for at least 3,000 years in Chinese medicine. According to the Whole Dog Journal, small amounts of garlic not only act as a natural flea repellant, but also for it's wonderful antifungal and antibacterial properties. Garlic also promotes the production of white blood cells and thereby acts as an immune system booster for low or compromised immune systems and may benefit animals with diabetes by helping to reduce blood-sugar levels. "Garlic can be used to stimulate and support immune function, trigger gastric juices for better digestion, encourage the growth of friendly bacteria and prevent infections." The Garlic Cure (McCleery & Sons, 2002)

Allicin is the active component in the root bulb (cloves) of the garlic plant which triggers the healing properties. Allicin is formed when alliin, a sulfur-containg amino acid, comes in contact with the enzyme alliinase (i.e. when raw garlic is chopped, crushed or chewed).

Garlic also contains thiosulphate. In extremely high doses, thiosulfate can be toxic; it can cause hemolytic anemia in dogs and cats. Remember, this is NOT the amount of garlic you find in dog or cat food, treats, supplements or even left-overs from dinner with garlic in it. Our pets would have to eat the equivalent of approximately 20 garlic cloves (cats) or 50 garlic cloves (dogs) in one sitting to be harmful! If your pet did happen to get into a basket of garlic cloves, the symptoms for hemolytic anemia can develop within a few hours to a few days. Signs include vomitting, diarrhea, weakness, depression and a loss of appitite. If you see these symptoms in your pet and you're missing a lot of garlic cloves, call your vet.

..."it takes long-term feeding of a significant amount of garlic to cause anemia. As with most things, the old saying "Moderation in all things" is well heeded in this case." (Veterinarians Guide to Natural Remedies for Cats: Safe and Effective Alternative Treatments and Healing Techniques from the Nation's Top Holistic Veterinarians)

Remember that anything in large quantities can be bad. For instance, taking a Vitamin E supplement every day is beneficial and healthy... but if a whole bottle was taken at one time it could be fatal. Not feeding foods that contain garlic is merely denying your animals the benefits it can provide them. Back to Basics has been feeding animals for over eleven years and we have never had any problems with the garlic in our food. If ther is any rule of thumb to follow just remember to only feed foods that use whole, human grade ingredients; stay away from any by-products, fillers, chemical preservatives and beet pulp. If you follow those rules your pet will be healthier and you will have peace of mind.

At Back to Basics we are proud to use small amounts of garlic in our products because of the natural health benefits and taste benefits!
 
Sources:

The Garlic Cure (McCleery & Sons, 2002)

Veterinarians Guide to Natural Remedies for Cats: Safe and Effective Alternative Treatments and Healing Techniques from the Nation's Top Holistic Veterinarians (Garlic for Cats?, July 20, 2005)

The History of Garlic: Nature's Ancient Superfood (Kristen Lasinski, June 2005)
 

[Cindy Nevarez]

They don't need it every day.

Using it for therapeudic purposes is a different story. Its use that way is a healthier alternative to conventional medicines, if they have a condition that requires it.

[Tommyboy]

Not to mention garlic in humans can give off quite a toxic smell to those around. My wife wont touch me after ONE clove, let alone fifty!

(mypoorattemptatlevity.com)

[garypen]

I can't imagine that the majority of cats prefer the taste of garlic. It's GARLIC, not fish oil. And, its healing properties in cats are probably negligible to non-existant. So, even if it is most likely not toxic in such low doses, why include it at all if it has no useful purpose? Is it because it has such a strong rep as a healthful ingredient for humans, and makes it more marketable to the holistic crowd that are the target demo for this type of product? (FYI-Garlic's hype has been somewhat tempered now that a few recent studies have disproved many of its human health benefits.)

[Davis]

I agree with Gary. And... all of those quotes prove absolutely nothing.  First of all, we are already aware of all the health claims about garlic.  There is no new information there.  And why are you using quotes from the "dog" journal which is referring to use in dogs when we are talking about cats here?  Second, those quotes only tell what the intentions are behind it's use by those who believe in it for those purposes.  Where are the studies that show it actually does any of those things or has those benefits in cats?  I doubt they exist.  And if there is no actual proof that it's good for them, most of us prefer not to take chances with it regardless of whether it is only harmful at higher doses. Again, someone else always decides for us based on poor or no evidence.  Ya know, melamine is not harmful at low doses and it raises the apparent protein content, so why not put it in there because the numbers will look good to consumers who want high protein foods.  Ridiculous reasoning.  Yeah, and garlic looks good to consumers who have heard all the hype about it.  Ugh!

Our pets would have to eat the equivalent of approximately 20 garlic cloves (cats) or 50 garlic cloves (dogs) in one sitting to be harmful!

Not feeding foods that contain garlic is merely denying your animals the benefits it can provide them.

Really?  And is there is some scientific proof of this in cats? 

[Beowulf]

Article was copied exactly from the website and I didn't write it, so if the quotes don't satisfy you... sorry.

Here's something I can tell you personally... I am and always have been a fan of observable facts.
A lot of hype and anti-hype changes on a day to day basis because of new findings, lists, studies etc... what's been true for a thousand years is completely and totally wrong tommorrow. The common bond with most of this is that it's all on paper and tested in a sterile lab somewhere without actually feeding said ingredient to any kind of animal... I understand why it's done, but I also see where it can goes wrong.

Want an extreme? Melamine added to wheat Gluten increases protein on paper... IN Fact, the FDA and partners still can't explain why this is causing kidney failure in animals because on PAPER, it doesn't add up! Yet the observable tell me that melamine is DEFINITELY harmful.

I've heard all this nonsense about garlic being bad for pets for about 3 years now, just as I've heard the same earful of misinfo about corn being bad... I'll tell you now, I haven't read the same journals, reports or studies you probably have... but I've been dealing with a b2b customer base of over 30,000 people nationwide whose pets have simply NEVER been anything less than completely healthy in regards to nutrition. I also feed my own 2 cats and dog a food with garlic and corn in it and my cats have shiny coats and full liveliness, while my dog has ranked #16 in the country (and yet he STILL gets into the laundry baskets! grr).

I guess no matter how many websites you try and direct me to or new findings you try and show me, you can't tell me the sky is green when I look up and see blue every day. And when scientists have been telling me garlic is good for pets for the last few decades and I've been able to witness the benefits first-hand, I'm ceratinly not going to buckle under a few new pieces of paper that tell me otherwise. I'll stick with the ingredients that have proven themselves for generations.

That's just my take... I encourage you not to feed any ingredient you're not comfortable with. Period.

[Annette]

The old wife's tale that garlic will repel fleas is just that...there are no studies to substantiate such a claim...anecdotal stories make nice tales but do not make scientific studies.  However, hemolytic anemia is real.

[garypen]

Removing the garlic is just something to consider, Mike. I'm not sure how high up you are on the B2B food chain. But, if you have pull, you might want to present those findings that garlic is not so good for cats to those that are in charge of the formulas there.

Why not strive for the absolute healthiest product you can provide? If there is any question as to the safety of an ingredient, doesn't it make sense to drop it? Is B2B's commitment to garlic that strong?

[Caylynn]

Ditto what Garypen said.  Back to Basics could be losing customers because they don't want to feed their pets anything that has been shown to be toxic.

If the garlic is present in concentrations low enough that it doesn't harm the cats, then it is also likely to be present in concentrations too low to have any beneficial effect.

This would be one of the products I would be looking at to feed my cat when we move back to Canada, if it wasn't for the garlic.  For now, it's looking like Orijen will be my food of choice.

[Beowulf]

I appreciate all of your feedback and have taken the liberty of using posts from this forum and others to give due consideration to public concerns at out next quarterly budget meeting in June.

FYI: Even the smallest change in formulation is a HUGE expense... and for the pennies we would save per unit on removing an ingredient, thousands of dollars are required for new design plates for the bags... not to mention our existing bag stock would have to be run through first.

This is not to say that we wouldn't willingly spend any necessary amount to make an important change to our formula, we would in a heartbeat. But there is simply no necessity in this case and the potential benefits of garlic still far outweigh the highly unlikely event that your pet will ever ingest enough in one sitting to raise toxicity to a level where it becomes dangerous.

If the garlic is present in concentrations low enough that it doesn't harm the cats, then it is also likely to be present in concentrations too low to have any beneficial effect.

Think about this... Limes, Oranges, and eggs (just to name a very few) ingested in very large quantites can raise Vitamin C and A levels to a point of dangerous toxicity in humans. HOWEVER, it is common knowledge that a single Orange is indeed very beneficial for you. Thus to think that benefit and detriment are on equal scale is not accurate.

I've also spent the last few days diggin for reports of illnesses or death related to garlic consumption by dogs or cats and have yet to uncover even one, not to say that there may not be a few out there (just as there will likely be the same due to other safe ingredients), just that I have not found them.

Anything in excess is harmful. Water is an absolute necessity, but too much will kill you.
This is our current stance on garlic unless and until there can be enough of a case for "potential" harm to outweigh the already established benefits (and I mean beyond the wives-tales of repelling fleas)... and going from hundreds of years of use in domestic animals with no negative consequences thus far, I don't think that case will be drawn up anytime soon.

I am very aware that as our technology and human potential increase (more in the last 10 than last 100 combined), there will be many things brought to light that where hereto unheard of, but I am careful not to ride the hype... once the "facts" are on paper it becomes contemplation, but not until that paper matches reality will it move beyond contemplation into consideration.

[Davis]

Mike, we can appreciate what you are saying.  Your company can certainly choose to leave the garlic in.  I think we are all just giving our opinions on the matter, and not so much trying to make demands.  But thank you for being willing to present these things to your company.  It's funny that you mentioned the costs of making a change, because we constantly see companies making changes in their food that are NOT to our liking!  Everything seems to work in opposition to us.  We can't get anyone to stop making undesirable changes to the foods that we like and want left alone, yet when it comes to changes that are positive, we are told it would cost too much.  Is anyone else picking up on this?  As for the supply of old bags, you can put little stickers on your old bags that state the garlic has been removed, without much cost, and even continue to use the old design plate and stickers forever.  I don't know much about bag printing, but perhaps you could do something to the plate that would cause the word "garlic" not to be printed (black streak or something) and still use the same one.  Just some ideas. 

Anything in excess can be unhealthy, which is why we are supposed to eat a "balanced" diet.  However, it is unlikely that the amount of Vit C you would get in eating excess foods that contain it would be toxic, because it's a water soluble nutrient and the body excretes any excess.  You might have some symptoms or health issues associated with eating too much of one thing like this, but it is not the same as what we are talking about with garlic and the potential destruction of blood cells which is not reversible.  You are correct about Vit A, but only the fat soluble form (not beta carotene). Excess liver consumption would be most likely to cause this. 

Maybe the garlic in small amounts won't hurt our cats and in the majority it does not, but a few cats are more susceptibe to long term low doses than others.  We just don't know for sure if it would be our cats and we don't want to take the chance.  Please remember that this forum is to discuss food in general and pet issues, so there is no need to take it personally and feel as though this is just about your food.  It's not.  We have talked about this on threads that are about other foods too.  I don't believe anyone here thinks your food is a bad food.  But if you come here to dialogue with us, it's unavoidable that you will hear opinions on these matters.  Just because your company takes a certain stance does not always mean that we are misinformed or wrong.  Most of us are pretty dilligent about wanting the best for our pets, doing the necessary research, and making our decisions accordingly.  I don't think too many of us are likely to believe something simply because we heard it on the internet. 

[PetFoodTracker]

Adding on to what Davis said...

Mike, it's all about PERCEPTION and belief.  And a lot of us have the belief that garlic is bad for our pets.  That perception ALONE is costing B2B sales.  Doesn't matter if it's not true.  (Frustrating to you - absolutely.)

I have a cat that loves garlic (flavored) food. I often make a ground turkey thing for myself, lots of garlic and italian seasoning and vegies. My cat Woody LOVES it. I always pick out the garlic so he doesn't get any chunks, but he gets lots of the flavoring. He *loves* it.  Given a choice between ground turkey with garlic and ground turkey without garlic - he won't touch the one without it.  So I can see why it's in your food!

But, a few weeks ago (before I knew who you guys were or saw this thread) I was looking for a new food, looked at the B2B site, saw the garlic, and removed B2B from consideration. Just sayin...      We're all so scared of food now, that ANYthing that sets off an alarm bell (again, whether it's totally true or not) is going to get that food eliminated. 

You guys could do the sticker thing (I'd thought of it too even before reading Davis's post!).

Maybe it's time for some market research...  even something as simple as a quick exit survey on your website.  (Did you buy? Why not?) 

Just my 2 cents...

[sylvia]

Thanks Mike for your patience, time and information. Just to let you know there are two sides to every coin; I have used garlic in my dog's food for many, many years and they are healthy and long lived. Part do to a healthy breed, part to good nutrition. The same with corn. My dogs have been eating premium foods with corn for years and are in beautiful condition. When I found all the foods on Theresa's list yours was one of about five I would have no problem using and have put it on suggested lists for friends and relatives who are at a loss as to what to feed their animals.
I do not have a cat at present but have had many over the years. I had one who loved green olives. We let him have one once in a while but not too many. Same with the garlic which I suspect in part helps to get a picky eater to try food.
Luckily there are choices out there that are healthy and fit each persons needs and concerns. I pick  the foods I think are good for my dogs and don't buy the others. Thanks again for the" mini seminars" on animal nutrition.