Ingredients of Kumpi

[bixlo]

My first bag of Kumpikat is waiting at home.  Let's see if they like it.

Was doing a little research on the Yucca myself.  Will post tomorrow
and await Evy's reply in regards to that ingredient as well.

[alek0]

Sylvia,
it only controls the smell of flatulence by reducing hydrogen sulfide, not the amount. If your dogs have such a problem, you could give them some live culture, no sugar no additives yogurt if they would eat it, or some probiotics&enzymes supplements to their food. Animal essentials plant enzymes and probiotics is pretty good.

Also, I'd like to add that I agree with garypen. I am not saying that Kumpi is a bad food. However, I would like some answers.

As for Yucca,
here are some links (subscription is necessary for reading full article, you can see abstract for free).

Article on fecal odour:
Fecal Odor Article

Note that the effect on blood urea levels in cats was different from previous results on rats and cattle. It is quite dangerous to extrapolate results from other animal species to cats.

Some additional references (other animals):

Yucca makes no significant difference in giardiasis:
Article

In this one, please note the difference between promising results in vitro and no difference in infection rates in vivo, in spite of some reduction in sheddding of cysts.

[Summer]

Hello Again From KumpiLand 

Thanks all so much for your patience.  Getting analytical details to answer these questions take a series of events
that takes time.  First, I need the time personally to call my nutritionist and leave a message if necessary;
then he contacts me, we dialogue and then (and then, and then, and then for you "dude" fans lol) he needs
to take the time to find the analytical abstracts on whatever specific issue we are dialoguing about.  Both of
us have full time jobs to tend to and personal lives (whatever is left of them  ) so he will try to work on this
tomorrow.  I know that he mentioned without being able to access the details, it's very difficult to use this
one report about blood urea in cats.  Without knowing specific amounts, it's hard to address the science of it
all. 

Again, he is coming at this from a scientific point of view and his first question was how much YSE was used,
what was the carrier, how many animals were involved in the experiment, what animals were involved in the
experiment, what was the length of time of the study i.e. days, weeks, months, etc.

Suddenly I remember why I love him so much 

His analytical nature kicks in and when I told him the study was from the UK and it was received in May 1995
and wasn't accepted until Jan 1997 he just kinda went hmm.  Also wondering why it wasn't available online
until 2004, and what prompted it.  I love talking with him.  Anyways, he went on to explain that a lot of
research has been done in this century about YSE and he's happy to gather the info, just needs some time.

Also, I have no doubt that YSE plays no roll in giardia!!  Not much does lol, except for meds.  Add to that how
the strains of giardia have mutated so much and there is even asymptomatic giardia that is stress induced.

Alec, do you have a chemistry degree or some kind of science degree that would prompt you to ask specific
questions about studies?  From what I've learned, they need to be read in their entirety and in context.
Some of the 'larger' companies have really skewed 'facts' about things in referring to studies.  When dealing
with these studies, it isn't often as simple as reading the abstracts.

[alek0]

Yes, I have a science degree and I work at a university. Of course when evaluating a study
it is necessary to check the entire article, however I cannot post the link to full article since
it requires subscription. I have the subscription through my university library, but I cannot
post entire article since it would be copyright violation.

If you or your nutritionist do not have access to this database, you can always e_mail the
authors and ask for reprint, I'm sure they would be happy to send it to you. However, I do
not need the feedback from your nutritionist for this study. I would like to know what is his
evidence for any additional benefits of Yucca Schidigera. Since you mentioned that your food
formulation is based on scientific principles and since you obviously consider addition of YSE
so significant to highlight it in comparison with other foods, surely you can provide references
for scientific evidence on benefts of Yucca?

As for "article available online in 2004" there is nothing suspicious about that. In 1997, most
of the journals dealt with hard copy submissions and had only print editions. After journals
switched to having online and print editions, the databases containing online articles slowly
expanded back. While for some journals it is possible to access the content online all the
way back, this is still not the case for Elsevier journals on science direct.

Same for "received May 1995, accepted Jan. 1997". Nothing suspicious about that either, since
review times were much longer when authors had to mail in 3-5 copies of the manuscript, then
editors had to send manuscripts again by mail to reviewers, then if one of the reviewers would
decline to review he/she would have to mail back the manuscript to the editorial office, etc.
Considering the fact that great majority of manuscripts undergo at least one revision, it would
not be unusual for that process to drag on for over a year even without additional complications
such as mansucripts lost in the mail etc. Nowadays the whole process is much faster with online
submissions and online reviewing. But there is nothing strange about those dates.

[Summer]

Alec ~

Well I will guarantee you that you know one whole bunch more than I do about this stuff!  My background
was in dog behavior - started the company when I noticed how many students were returning with puppies,
minus their previous dog.  Too many dying around the ages of 6 - 9 years of cancer.  Then when my OWN
dog died when he was only five of cancer, I got proactive.  Also, due to my career, so many asked, "What do
I feed my dog?" and I was running out of viable options.  Seemed as soon as a food seemed good, something
would change.

I wasn't intending on beginning a pet food company, but it has grown steadily by word of mouth.  I absolutely
admire my nutritionist for his matter of fact approach to things and how I have learned first hand that nutrition
is it's own science.  Added to that, he enjoys studying the chemistry behind the ingredients and I could listen
to him for hours.  Unfortunately, time often does not allow that and the extreme results I have witnessed
over the years are a testimony to his expertise. 

I *thought* you had to have a background in science to be asking such erudite questions 

For me, this part is fun!!  I always enjoy the opportunity to continue learning the deeper science behind
his choices.  I know that when glucosamine and chondroitin were all the rage, he searched for substantive
scientific data regarding dogs and cats, and came to the conclusion that approaching it through superior
nutrition would be the first avenue.  Then, MSM and any use of glucosamine or chondroitin to be watched
over and dosed by a trusted veterinarian.  He keeps his eye on the horizon for the opportunity to best
what he had accomplished.  All Kumpi products were formulated without a 'price point' in mind and he
thoroughly enjoyed working on them!

He is very analytical and maybe throughout this process we might just hook on on a three way
conversation and you could ask him questions personally as well, and in dialoguing with him, his
knowledge shines through immediately.  When asked specifically for scientific data - well, that just makes
his boat float!!!

Thanks for this chance to let him shine    I'll see what his time frame is like for this week 

[alek0]

Looking forward to see his reply.

Another question though:
You have mentioned several times that amino acid chelates are superior
mineral sources over proteinates. Yet in your food for each mineral you have inorganic
source +amino acid chelate.

For example:
Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate
Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate,
Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate,
Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate,
Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate

What is the ratio of the two?

[Summer]

Alec ~

http://www.albion-an.com/q_and_a.html

For a 'quick' read about the Albion MAAC this link does a good job.

Still waiting myself with Mark.  He is in high demand right now and his time is at a premium.  I have already tapped
him so often for so much, I've told him it's cool to back burner me for a bit.  I've learned so much in the last month
about the science of what he knows, but not enough to answer questions from someone with a degree like you

Therese has banned me from posting any testimonials or feedback, but I can only assure you that after nine years
of incredible feedback, combined with who trusts me 'n why, I don't have to know why it works.  I just know that it does!

I am *famous* for always trying to get people answers to their questions and hope that you understand that time
constraints may hinder things a little bit.

Egads, I love analytical people 

Oooops and forgot the rules here too, Evy, President of Kumpi Pet Foods (keep forgetting to name 'n claim myself!)

[alek0]

Evy,

thanks for the link but that does not answer my question. Your food
has both amino acid chelate and inorganic source for each mineral.
What I would like to know is how much of which, i.e.
xx % ferrous sulfate , yy% iron amino acid chelate.

I understand about your nutritionist being busy, no problem,
I'll wait.

[Summer]

One thing of note is that the MAAC by Albion specifically (since they have it patented), has earned their
own distinct AAFCO definition in the manual.  Proteinates are still a generic nomenclature and can be purchased
from various companies.  If you see the XXXX Amino Acid Chelate, it is definitively the Albion patented chelate.

And once again, I'll have to pitch that back to Mark   Thanks for your patience and the chance to continue
bringing forth what I am so dang proud about.

Evy
President
Kumpi Pet Foods

[Sarah]

Evy it has been a week now since I ask you about your dog food.  You have not answered any of my questions.  Is there a problem?
Sarah

[Summer]

Sarah ~

I need to finish a phone call - will post in a bit.

Evy

[Summer]

Sarah ~

Ok 

In reading through your post it seems that the one I can answer best is addressing this whole mess about 'rendered' icky stuff that has been fear mongered about so badly.  This will be a bit graphic, but it's also how pet food that doesn't use 4D meat (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) gets made.

Species specific is slaughtered in a live kill.  The carcass is dressed out for what will appeal to the consumer, i.e. ribs, steak, brisket, breast, etc.  From that same carcass there is meat that will not 'fit' a category and is flash frozen into cubes.  Those cubes are sent to a plant where it will go through a grinder and then put into a continuous rotary cooker (think of big cement trucks and the shape of that) - in that cooker the raw materials are subjected to 115 degrees centigrade and sterilized by steam heating.

From there it goes into a screener that extracts drained solids that go through a presser and becomes the meal specific to it's species.

When a company refers to using 'fresh' meat and does not have the word meal behind it, it's being used in production in the flash frozen cube - moisture and all.  That is why you will read that 'fresh' meat or one without the word 'meal' behind it will actually contain 65 - 70% moisture.  When it goes to 'cook' in the food production run, the evaporation of the moisture leaves little real 'meat' behind.  Just another way to fool the consumer into thinking WOW there is a lot of meat in this pet food!!  Sadly, even a 'meat' meal as the first ingredient leaves room for a preponderance of grain.

As I have mentioned over on Itchmo, I am needing to give my nutritionist a break.  It's been one month non stop of me calling him and he has a job, a family, teenage kids, wife.....you get the picture.  He has been overly gracious to me in extending his time and I don't feel that there are any questions posed that require an urgent reply.

In my spare time (read in a couple of weeks lol) I am planning on starting a blog for folks to follow that I will have linked to my websites.  I've had some extraordinary experiences, questions and would like to address issues 'real time' from my own location.  I have posted so much information that has been so scattered, it'd be best if it were all in one place.  That and I find myself re-posting much of it and it's not very time efficient.

Hope this well answers your question about rendering, meal, etc.  Much like Therese, Itchmo and others, we all have jobs to tend to, people we care about in our lives, but still want to stay in touch with the public in any way we can help.  This pandemic swooped down on us all and many extra hours that we could have spent doing other things we have sacrificed as a public service to help unite pet lovers, educate them and give them sane answers and an outlet for their questions.

Warmly warm hugs to FurAngels all 

[Sarah]

This sounds like rendered meat, then.  So is this meat meal the same thing that other pet foods get?  From Ol' Roy to Natural Balance.  Correct?

[Sarah]

Evy it has been more than a week now and you still have not answered my question.  I will repeat it here, again.

This sounds like rendered meat, then.  So is this meat meal the same thing that other pet foods get?  From Ol' Roy to Natural Balance.  Correct?

Can you please answer this.
Sarah

[Therese]

Sarah, please contact Evy through her website: http://www.kumpi.com. That's probably the fastest way to get in touch with her.