Ingredients of Kumpi

[garypen]

One would assume that the purpose of using a "premiere" nutritionist is to acheive a list of ingredients that make up a healthy food. So, the ingredient list is the primary source of information as to the health and quality of the food. Of course, there are other factors such as the quality of those ingredients. (And, Kumpi seems to use pretty high quality ingredients.) But, the ingredient list itself is the logical starting point for choosing a pet food. (or a human food for that matter.)

Obviously, the ingredient list is important to you, as it is a primary sales tool on the Kumpikat website, with a comparison table of Kumpikat versus other natural-type cat foods. There is nothing wrong with that, of course. But, please don't diminish the importance of the list itself. (OTOH, as we have all learned, the written list can be irrelevant, as the FDA allows the use of outdated lists even after major changes to the recipes/formulas.)

I do want to point out an inaccuracy in the comparison chart, though. It says that California Natural Chicken & Brown Rice has no chicken fat. But, in fact, it does. I also have a question about the chart itself. You compare the number of meat meal sources, as if using multiple meals from different animals is somehow healthier. Can you explain why 10g of chicken meal is less healthy than 10g of meat meals from a mixture chicken, lamb, beef, and pork? Also, you do not compare carbohydrate levels. That is considered by many to be just as important as protein and fat percentages. It certainly is for diabetic cats.

Your food does sound very good. The testemonials are certainly postive and plentiful, as many of us have noticed. (And the owner certainly cares about animals!  ) But, I finally saw how much Kumpikat costs. Sweet chocolate Jesus! $22 for a 4lb bag?  I'm sorry. But, I'll stick with the CalNat for now. At $15 for an 8lb bag of what seems to me to be a fine combination of ingredients, plus local availability, it just makes more sense for me and my guys. Sorry. But, to me, I just can't see paying an extra 200% for Kumpikat. 10% sure, I'd give it a shot. 20%, maybe. But, 3 times the price? Good luck with allllllll that.

[eternaljester81]

Garypen,
if it makes you feel any better, the shipping is included in the $22.

[garypen]

In that case, I'll take six bags.

[Summer]

Where was I ?

Sorry, yet again another person who lost a dog.  I am just so filled with the grief of talking with people who have suffered that tragedy.

Btw, Garypen, I do not have a comparison chart on the cat food site, only on the dog food site.  Not all companies utilize the same fat source for their dog and cat foods, although most do.  California Natural does use chicken in their cat food, but they use sunflower oil in their dog foods.  You can check that out and verify that on their website at naturapet.com.

I use the comparison charts not so much for ingredients, but for the purpose of showing meat/grain ratios, to help people get a visual of the amount of grain in their dog food.  I haven't had the time to get any comp charts posted on the cat food site.  The other comp chart shows the number of meats used (any that is a 'liquid meat' ranks 0 - covered that in my other post already) and to show who is using what for supplementation.

You will notice the use of pre/probiotics, kelp, minerals (the MAAC patented one from Albion is pricy but worth it since their patent shows the science behind it's bioavailability to the body), yeast culture (sad nomenclature for a wonderful ingredient that releases digestive enzymes) and yucca schidigera.  I key in on those, since you see many companys using some of those and if a person isn't wanting to spend the money on Kumpi, it's been a valuable tool to help them make a selection.  Also, the issue of chicken fat vs. other fat sources is really important.

If you look at pet food labels, you'll almost always see (mixed tocopherols, citric acid, etc.) listed in with the fat source.  The product used by virtually all companies is Naturox and it is added to the fat before the fat is added to the ingredients.  Chicken fat emulsifies the Naturox most efficiently and covers the bases best to not have pockets of food where it could become rancid, since the preservative Naturox did not reach it. 

As for the cost of the catfood, sorry, but I am pretty ambivalent about that.  I asked my *premiere* nutritionist to formulate the best.  He did.  It is expensive.  I don't care.  The best is worth it for my cat and has been worth it for others as well.  My profit margin isn't that high and trying to supplement a cat can be a hideous venture lol.  I prefer having it all in the food (sprayed on after it's cooked and cooled btw so it hasn't been destroyed by heat) and all the best to ya if the cost is too high for you. 

I'm sure there are things you're spending money on that I would recoil at - it's all relative in the end.  One pound of KumpiKat is worth at least two pounds of most of the foods out there.  Cats on that product eat less and actually finish their bowls.....no little rings of lost crunchies around a KumpiKat bowl.  And if you've never tried it to see the difference it makes, I guess I don't understand your opinion.  I spent the money on the new Ipod when I listened to a friend's and my Creative Zen mp3 sits lonely now.  But then again, I value sound very highly when I'm listening to music.  If cat food costs you even $20 more a month, but you see a healthier happier cat - is it worth it??  Depends on the person. 

I'll be back once I'm done running credit cards

Evy (President, Kumpi Pet Foods)

[garypen]

Btw, Garypen, I do not have a comparison chart on the cat food site, only on the dog food site.

Sorry. I must have mis-understood where it says "COMPARE CAT FOODS" at the top, and the column marked "KUMPI KAT" .


The above image is accessed by clicking the link on the KumpiKat ingredients page (http://www.kumpikat.com/ingredients.html#)  that says "click here to compare our nutrients with other cat foods", (http://www.kumpikat.com/art/comparecat.gif)

I hope you have a better relationship with your premier nutritionist than you do with your webmaster.

[Summer]

yahoooooooo LOL

my webmaster DID get it on and now I have to do ANOTHER change - egads!!!

yippy skippy

THANKS for posting the comparison for me!!!  I'll get right on the changes Chief lol.

Between answering the phones and emails, doing clerical work and *ahem* answering issues on blogs, I have a hard time keeping up with the changes companys are making.  Thanks for pointing that out 'n I will take a few hours tomorrow and comb through the comp chart.  You really are a doll for pointing that out to me!!

Back to the trenches for me for now......but counting it all joy here

Warm hugs to FurAngels all

Evy (President, Kumpi Pet Foods)

[Lisa C]

I've been reading this whole discussion, and I was hoping you could clarify one thing for me.  You say that "meal" is the meat with the water removed.  How is that accomplished?  I thought it was by cooking the meat until no water is left.  Is this right?  Or is there another way to do it?  Your knowledge is these areas is greatly appreciated.

[eternaljester81]

"Cats on that product eat less and actually finish their bowls.....no little rings of lost crunchies around a KumpiKat bowl."

I really wish this would start happening.  Our five cats just aren't sure about KumpiKat. They'll all eat a little bit, but just don't got at it like they did with past foods. It may be because they were used to eating "junk" food (you know, take away the potato chips and give them spinach). I'm just afraid that they may not be eating as they should, but I don't understand it since every one who's mentioned feeding Kumpikat says their cats love it. Does anyone have any tips for getting our cats to eat?

[alek0]

One comment on that comparison chart. Not sure about accuracy of comparisons with other foods, but since I am using Timberwolf Serengeti, few things I have noticed.

1. According to chart, TS does not have enzymes. Not correct. It contains both fermentation products of various bacteria (similar to Kumpikat) and papain.

2. According to chart, TS does not have amino acid chelated minerals. While most of mineral supplements in TS are proteinates, manganese is indeed Manganese Amino Acid Chelate.

3. concerning the number of meals, I do think that low ash salmon meal is a better ingredient than menhadden fish meal. Also, I think dired chicken liver should be at least comparable if not better than chicken liver meal.

This is not to say that Kumpikat is a bad food. However, it is not widely available, and it has lower protein and higher fat content compared to Timberwolf Serengeti. I also do not like discrepancies in the chart. In addition to TS, as someone mentioned California Natural does contain chicken fat. Then, Nature's Variety Lamb and Oatmeal does contain amino acid chelated minerals, and it also contains kelp. I do not think it is really necessary to make other good foods appear worse than they really are in order to promote Kumpi.

[sylvia]

eternaljester81
I have dogs not cats but I noticed something similar. I divide the feed into 2 meals a day and was used to dogs who cleaned the plate both times. When I started Kumpi I noticed one meal would be finished and another only half though I was feeding the recommended amount. This bothered me a little so I emailed Evy. She explained because Kumpi is so nutrient dense some dogs do require less food. I later read it on the bag. DUH! Perhaps your cats are eating what they need and it is less than the previous food. After almost a month on Kumpi my dogs are happy, healthy, no thinner, as we were at the vet's for the annual on Thursday, but are definitely eating a little less. Just a thought.

[Summer]

One comment on that comparison chart. Not sure about accuracy of comparisons with other foods, but since I am using Timberwolf Serengeti, few things I have noticed.

1. According to chart, TS does not have enzymes. Not correct. It contains both fermentation products of various bacteria (similar to Kumpikat) and papain.

*****"yeast culture" - the papain and fermentation products you are referring to are not as powerful or effective per scientific data from my nutritionist

2. According to chart, TS does not have amino acid chelated minerals. While most of mineral supplements in TS are proteinates, manganese is indeed Manganese Amino Acid Chelate.

**** TS does not have a full spectrum of Metal Amino Acid Chelates - having just one doesn't count when we have 'em all

3. concerning the number of meals, I do think that low ash salmon meal is a better ingredient than menhadden fish meal. Also, I think dired chicken liver should be at least comparable if not better than chicken liver meal.

*****back to the drawing board with my nutritionist - look, honestly, I didn't come here to fight  but please know more about the science of things vs. how you *feel* about a product - I was saddened to see Nature's Logic get hammered about animal plasma - personally I know nothing about it, but I know it is a good company and I would believe the science they offer about it - when a nutritionist is doing their job properly, they are not concerned about what the consumer will *think* or *feel* about a product - they are following the laws of science

This is not to say that Kumpikat is a bad food. However, it is not widely available, and it has lower protein and higher fat content compared to Timberwolf Serengeti. I also do not like discrepancies in the chart. In addition to TS, as someone mentioned California Natural does contain chicken fat. Then, Nature's Variety Lamb and Oatmeal does contain amino acid chelated minerals, and it also contains kelp. I do not think it is really necessary to make other good foods appear worse than they really are in order to promote Kumpi.

*****PLEASE look at the chart more closely and you will find that Nature's Variety Lamb and Oatmeal has a Y in the kelp category already and it does not have the patented Metal Amino Acid Chelates in it. 

The reason for *chelating* i.e. wrapping a mineral with amino acids is to help it enter the intestine more readily.  The more it looks like an amino acid, the more readily it will accept not only the mineral itself, but the amino acid as well (part of the building blocks pet's need) and think of it this way.

The intestine is like a buncha pop bottles and you're wanting to land a mineral inside those openings.  Plain old manganese is like a big rock trying to get in there during the rotation in the tummy - not much of a chance.  A proteinated mineral is like trying to get a rock half that size in - it does have a 400% more chance than the common form of the mineral.  But the proven science, backed by a patent, is that the Metal Amino Acid Chelated form of a mineral is like trying to drop a pebble into that pop bottle - it has a 800% greater chance than the common form and also, twice the chance of a proteinate.

I spend a lotta mo' money to buy the patented stuff so gimme a break k??

By now, if you haven't gotten the idea that not ALL pet food companies are trying to make the absolute best for your pet and aren't watching very carefully how to be good but not necessarily off the charts best, and cutting corners, then I wonder why you're pickin' on me

If you are happy with what you are feeding and happy with the results and are confident, NO ONE, especially me, is trying to make you switch!!

Try starting a pet foodl line that you didn't plan on being so widely accepted that grew by word of mouth and get back to me LOL.  I made da big bucks doing dog behavior.  I am joined by another elite crew in Ben at Itchmo and Therese here at thepetfoodlist.com who are making sacrifices in their personal lives so you have better ways to discern what to buy.  There is ONE mistake on the chart and NONE of the ones you indicated.  The research to provide that information per food takes over forty hours per chart to get it all right.  And if anything, thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify the difference between the proteinate and Metal Amino Acid Chelate 

If you likey what you feedy, then don't change.  The charts have helped people choose foods other than Kumpi or KumpiKat since the price range difference is something they cannot afford.  It is not offered only to promote the *stellar* aspects of just my food - many people have verified the information and found it to be helpful for them to have a quick read (that they substantiate themselves) in making a choice.  I'm about educating and empowering the consumer to learn about differences and helping them make their own choices.  You aren't in my inbox, seeing the 'thanks' from folks that helped them choose another food   Whatever you buy, making informed decisions and having info gathered for you ahead of time helps.  I know KumpiKat isn't for everyone, per price range, but it helps folks make better decicions on what they do decide to purchase.

I for one am happy to hear about a kitty who is finally feeling limber enough to try and use the litterbox again.  He's just GOT to be feeling better about himself

Except for Chief Gary pointing out the chicken fat error, I'm pretty confident the charts are indicating true data.  And like I told the Chief, I'll be getting on that!!!  Labels chance and I keep up with the changes the best I can.

Dang man, I just wanted to offer an alternative to corporate America.  It's me and one other gal holding down the fort wih every single aspect of running the company.  It's a big job, but every morning I bounce of out bed ready for the challenges, the feeling that I'm making a difference.

People in cat houses shouldn't be throwing cat poopies without knowing the science and chemistry in these various ingredients.  Am I'm not even factoring in *where* they source their kelp, yucca, etc.  I am doing the fair thing by listing that they do.

The comp chart needs a change and when I finish this tomorrow, it will reflect what is on the respective sites of these companies and I'm glad to see Cal. Nat. did go with chicken fat in the cat food - that is awesome ;0

G'nght dear friends, morning start early around here and me 'n the dog and cat need to do our nighttime love puddle in bed ;O

Sweet dreams and warm hugs to FurAngels ;0

Evy (President Kumpi Pet Foods)

[alek0]

Nature's variety HAS METAL AMINO ACID CHELATES. I apologize about kelp, my mistake.

Lamb Meal & Oatmeal Medley

Ingredients: Lamb, Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Menhaden Fish, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite, Flaxseed Oil, Freeze Dried Lamb, Freeze Dried Lamb Liver, Freeze Dried Salmon Oil, Apples, Cranberries, Kelp, Parsley, Artichoke, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove, Fermentation Products (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (A Source Of Vitamin C), Carotene, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Ferrous Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Taurine, And Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Also, this is not about how I *feel* about ceratin foods. Nature's Logic made some very specific claims. While some of those would be difficult to verify, claim that it enhances immune response of dogs vaccinate for Parvo is specific enough. Yet, I have not been able to locate any relevant articles in veterinary journals on this issue. You can believe whatever you like, I prefer to see evidence for scientific clams.

I am not picking on you, I am just pointing out things in the chart which I have noticed. Also, your chart seems to be rather arbitrary. Can you please point out any other advantage (with references for scientific proof) of benefits of Yucca Schidigera addition to food besides reduction in faecal smell? If there is no other advantage apart from reduced bad smell, why has this been chosen as a point of comparison with other foods?

[garypen]

Did I miss anything??

Yes. Why is having multiple meat meals better than having only one or two, if the total amount of meat meal is the same? I'm still wondering that.

Also, it seems that "proteinate" means the same as "chelated". So, you should probably change Timberwolf Serengeti's chelated status on the chart. Oh, and Califonia Natural too. They use Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate,  and Zinc Proteinate. And, of course, Nature's Variety, as noted by Alek.

Does questioning marketing hype make me a chief? Cool. Do I get to wear a big feather headdress?

[Davis]

Does wondering about that stuff make me a chief? Cool. Do I get to wear a big feather headdress?

In that case there would be a lot of chiefs around here.
And I think you should wear a cat hair headdress, of course!  Now that shedding season is here, it shouldn't be to difficult to put together.

[Lisa C]

Does anyone here know how meat meal is made? (See my post above.)  I've been wondering about this for awhile.