Feline Vitamins

[Mary K]

I am in dire need of finding a quality supplement for my cats while feeding them a combination of cooked meat (no bone) and dry food. Today I bought a bottle of Hartz Everyday Chewable Cat and Kitten vitamins, but when I got them home and opened them, the seal had been broken! (Won't be using those.) I live out in the middle of nowhere, mind you. I have searched for days on-line for an Organic Feline basic vitamin without all the herbal frills. How does one trust feeding concentrated dehydrated calves liver to one's cats? That in itself sounds like a recipe for disaster! And that's just a start. Each brand has a completely different formula and mgs/IU's of various vitamins with a wide range. Vitamins listed on the labels also range from 21 to 40 types !! Where are these manufactured? (Hartz wouldn't tell me their secret.) Do any of these products contain trace amounts of unlisted wheat gluten? (Hartz "Our product is not affected by the recall") I haven't contacted other companies yet. And human vitamins don't seem appropriate for little ones weighing 9-15 lbs. This has to be addressed by folks who plan to cook or feed raw to their cats. Suggestions are appreciated.

[Therese]

Mary, take a look at B-Naturals. I have only heard good things about Lew Olson, the woman who owns the company. She, and her products, have an excellent reputation.

http://b-naturals.com/default.php

[Davis]

Mary, I'm having the same dilemma.  I want to start feeding a certain percentage of my cat's diet as homemade meals, but I don't know how to properly supplement this and I want to carefully make sure I do it correctly, and with only the highest quality supplements.  I left some great links about feline nutritional needs that you might find helpful on another thread.  Hopefully we will figure this out together. 

[garypen]

Maybe a good place for you folks to start is Pet Food Direct's listing of feline vitamin suppliments that they carry.
http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/dept_brands.asp?dept%5Fid=210&

You can compare the basic info there. Then, go to the individual comapny websites for detailed info and dealer locations. Or, you can just order it from PFD, I suppose.

[Davis]

Thanks Gary.  Unfortunately I had tried that already.  The problem is that I ended up feeling even more confused looking at all those commercial supplements.  And then I wonder which ones are formulated with safe ingredients, and from what source, where.  Ugh!  Then thinking about trying to figure out how much is needed of each nutrient and specifically which nutrients are needed based on the cat's diet, etc.  I don't want to over-supplement in any area either.  That could be just as bad.  What a nightmare. 

[Mary K]

Thank you Therese, On the B Naturals Vitamins; I only saw one basic daily formula for cats and it was all herbs. Another one of their basic formulas was for both dogs and cats, and I don't think that is a good idea, either. Others can check it out, though.
Back to Hartz Everyday Chewable Vitamins for Cats and Kittens, you can't get the ingredients off their website but since I have this "tampered" bottle still in my posession, I shall expose the label to you.

1 tablet contains:
"Guaranteed Analysis"
Vit A   250 IU
Vit D   25 IU
Vit E    2.5 IU
Thiamine (B1)  .25 mg.
Riboflavin (B2)  .2 mg.
B6  .2 mg.
B 12  1.0 mcg.
Niacinamide  3.0 mg.
Brewers Dried Yeast  350 mgs   *
Protein  50 mg.  *
Choline (from Brewers Dried Yeast and Lecithin) 2.5 mg.
Inisitol  (   ''       ''             ''        "       "       "      ) 2.0 mg.  *
Folic Acid  40 mcgs.
Taurine  50 mg.  *
Pantothenic Acid  .25 mg.

Ingredients : Brewer's Dried Yeast, Dried Whey, Taurine, Dessicated Liver, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D 3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, Vitamin B 12 supplement, Riboflavin supplement, Niacin supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate.

After reading Davis's article on cat nutrition, you can compare these numbers to the Nutrition Profiles for cats, and appreciate this formula! These numbers for Hartz are pretty right on the mark, especially if you give 2 tabs, which an adult cat dose is 1-2 tabs daily. 1/2 tab for kittens. There are no fancy herbs and only a few ingredients not listed on the profiles. (I marked those with a * .
As the article on Feline Nutrition mentions, you don't want to overdose by giving daily vitamins in addition to vitamin fortified commercial food. I am interested in using vitamins during the transition phase from commercial to cooked or raw, since my 3 cats will be eating much less commercial food now. I think I will try this brand (but have to exchange for an untampered bottle). Hope that helps some of you!

[Mary K]

OK. I am still using the Hartz Multivitamins for cats. I looked them up and they were bought by a Japanese firm, The Sumitomo Corporation, in 2004. So far, I have no complaints, but what should I be looking for? I'm not sure...

[garypen]

I'm not too fond of Hartz products. I also view them in the same class as cheap, crappy supermarket pet food. To me, Hartz products have always seemed like cheap, crappy, supermarket pet supplies.

There's an interesting site that deals with mostly their flea control products, and how they sicken and injure animals. But, it reflects on them as a company, in general:

http://www.hartzvictims.org/index.php

I'm sure that just about every pet lover here would be interested.

[Mary K]

Thank you, Garypen, I guess I thought at least the vitamin/mineral supplement part of my new cat diet would be easy. Well, I don't take vitamins or supplements myself and rely on a healthy diet instead. I will have to keep working on their diet, and honing it to perfection. They didn't like the taste of the Hartz Vitamins. Sometimes I laugh when it seems you have to be a scientist, now,  to have a healthy pet !

[Davis]

It took me a long time to find a supplement that looks like a really good one for homemade diets.  Many of us have been looking for something like this, and this looks like a great product.  I posted this link on another thread, but I didn't want any of you to miss it, so I'm posting it here too.  This one is different and well worth looking into.  It's made to be mixed into raw food, but I think it could be mixed into any homemade cooked food and would work equally well.  If anyone has tried this product, please post your opinions. 
http://www.felinefuture.com/cat_food/

[Mary K]

I stopped using the Hartz, needless to say. Yesterday I got  Kal human-grade pure bone meal. I have a question. I am reading Dr Pitcairn's book now and he divides calcium and bone meal sources into 3 groups. The product I have is Calcium 1620 mgs with Phosphorus 540 mgs and Magnesium 18 mgs (per teaspoonful) But he doesn't recommend this formula for cat recipes, just dogs. He recommends the lower potency Bone Meals for cats (see page 67).  I traveled 100 mi round trip to stock up on this, then got the Pitcairn book in the mail. Does anyone know if this ratio is safe? Should I just give less? How much? Thank you!!

[Cindy Nevarez]

Hi Mary,
I imagine the reason for this precaution is because of cat-diseases associated with excess Phos. and Mag.
If I was me in your shoes, I would hold onto it until my next trip into town to return/exchange it.

In the meanwhile have you any Calcium citrate in a capsule, or tablet around the house that you can grind down a bit?

[Davis]

Oh gosh Mary. I wish I could help. Isn't it confusing? That's why I'm thinking of going the route of the above product in order to avoid having to become a chemist. Sounds like you put a lot of effort into chosing a good product, and you certainly are putting your heart into this, so I'm sure you will figure something out. By the way, those cats of yours are exquisite.  I just loved their pictures.

[Cindy Nevarez]

BTW, Mary, to give the kids natural bone meal all you'll have to do is feed them canned sardines, or canned whole salmon...both of which have the bone still in and these are jam-packed with calcium and other bone minerals, and it's soft and crumbly so they can eat it easily. They'll eat what they want based on what their little bodies need at the moment.

[Mary K]

Thank you for your kind words, Davis! The cats aren't giving me any positive feedback right now, and I needed it!
I already opened the one bottle of Kal bone meal last PM and sprinkled a tad on their dinner, eager to get that potential deficiency solved. Most all the human-grade bone meals have all kinds of other ingredients in them, so when I saw it was pure, I grabbed 2 bottles! Anybody need a newly opened bottle of Kal bone meal powder? My kids get salmon and spit out the bone, so I crush it with a spoon first. But can't give salmon every day, right? I had read that the bone meal was an extremely important part of the cat's diet. I don't have other forms of calcium around, except for nonfat dry milk powder. BTW, according to store clerks, this stuff is selling like hot-cakes for home-made pet-food right now. I sure hope other's also do their homework regarding other ingredients, ratio's of minerals, etc.