Wysong

[Magwheelz]

In fact..if you go back using web.archive.org...you can see they(Innova) DID list Wysong in their "comparison" list back in 1999(I didn't check the other years). Notice now-a-days they no longer have Wysong on the list.  But also notice they do still target the other companies and their ingredients. (Again..if Wysong just did it that way- it'd be fine with you guys? Ok...)

http://web.archive.org/web/20031002163031/naturapet.com/display.php?d=comp-wiz

[jenny]

I have no problem with a company having a comparison chart. Natura still does - it simply lists the ingredients and analysis from one company to theirs.  No additional comments.  It is the additional trashing that Wysong does, in addition to a product that just doesn't stack up if you do comparisons of protein etc (at least if I look at canned food). , that makes me think they have something to hide.  They at least have a lot to learn about public relations if nothing else.  Insulting those that lost pets during the recalls didn't help their case any.

As for information on their page, there are lots of companies and vets etc. that have good information.  I don't find Wysongs any better than a lot of others. 

[Magwheelz]

But that's what I mean. If Wysong did it EXACTLY like the others, or how you'd like..everything would be fine.  Innova/Natura lists a whole lot more companies than Wysong- to do an "analysis from one company to theirs", as you put it.

 "No additional comments"..no "trashing" either....do you mean like "While the whole corn kernel is nutritious and follows Natura's philosophy of supplying whole grain nutrition, corn is considered to be highly allergenic."- direct from Natura's website, in their comparisons. Some others: "Brewer's rice is a lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in ground rice and ground brown rice. (See the descriptions for those ingredients.) Natura uses only whole ingredients, with their nutrients still intact."

"Fish meal is made from unspecified types of fish. While fish meal can be a good source of essential fatty acids and is very palatable for cats, the ambiguous nature of this ingredient puts it on our unapproved ingredient list."

"Artificial flavors and colors don't belong in dog and cat food. Use of these ingredients can conceal damage or inferiority, or make the product appear better than it actually is. Natura does not need to add artificial flavor, color, or other chemical ingredients to our foods. They add no nutritional value and raise questions about the health and safety of chemical additives to our pets' diets when eaten everyday. Instead, Natura's flavor and color come from the use of real, human-grade ingredients."

As I said before...it's not just their use of the top quality ingredients..it's the way they process things, etc. If you want the most protein..if you really think that's what you need- there are other options.

I've found a lot more information on Wysong's website than anywhere else.  Their common sense- as you can see in their response to Innova..is refreshing.

As for their comments on the pet food recall...I'll admit I never saw it- only people alluding to it.  I did read the long pages they still do have up on it...including their claim that they received both positive and negative on the post you're referring to.  One thing I do know..none of their foods were on the recall list.

I'd like to re-post the link you gave earlier: http://www.wysong.net/faqpets.shtml#companydebates As anyone can see...there's just one small section on "trashing"  other companies. The rest of the page has lots of other info on ingredients..research...etc etc.  I just read this one which I found very interesting: http://www.wysong.net/dontbefooled/wyscin.shtml

[sylvia]

Jenny I have noted you analyze various foods, not just Wysong, with great authority and generally discount most as not high in this or too high in that. What is your professional training? Are you an animal nutritionist, a vet, a biologist, a chemist, a researcher of some kind,etc......?
What level of studies? BS, Masters, Doctorate, DVM,....?
Thanks, Sylvia

[jenny]

sylvia - it's pretty easy to do a dry matter conversion.   Here is a web page that describes how to do it (and why you might want to):

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/dm.html

I simply said that Wysong was lower protein than what I was looking for.  You need to decide what is best for your cat.  There is a lot of information available, though, giving the importance of high protein diets for cats.  This one is just an example:

http://www.catinfo.org/

Sylvia - sorry if I have offended you in any way.  However, please keep in mind I'm not commenting in any way on you.  Just my opinion about a pet food company.   

Magheelz - I understand your point.  For me I think it is that combined with their initial post post defending Menu foods that bothers me.  It just makes me wonder if they have something to cover up.  Each of us has their own comfort level, though.  Who knows - maybe some day I will feed my cats this.  But for now, I'm not comfortable with it.   You may find this of interest from one of the itchmo forums:
http://itchmoforums.com/index.php?topic=254.15

[Magwheelz]

And from reading that thread it seems that particular post by Wysong was soon after the recall stuff started(as someone in that thread pointed out)..and as you can see they now have 2 other pages on it. 

Still may not make it right(I'd still love to be able to see it)..but once again I'm glad to see people complaining about that issue rather than the quality etc of Wysong's products.

Thanks for the link btw.

[sylvia]

Jenny I am not offended by your bashing of Wysong as that company hardly needs me or my help. As I said, I wish at this point I had stock in it as I believe the quality pet foods will begin to be discovered by the average consumer after this terrible pet food fiasco. In the past when people would ask what I fed and I said Wysong they would look at me with a "what's that?" and never buy it as it was not in the grocery store or at PetSmart. Now some of the fancier boutiques in my area are carrying it and some other super choices too. I found The Honest Kitchen products at dog shows this past weekend. Yeah! I was simply curious as to your educational qualifications to be making such adamant statements on various pet foods/companies.  Thanks for the answer. Have a great week. 

Sylvia added: I finally had the time to visit your recommended site www.catinfo.org.
I was surprised to see that vet Lisa A. Pierson DVM, whom you recommend, has Wysong products on her list of recommended cat foods. Now  I am confused

[Davis]

But Davis..back to your first post- Innova did it to Wysong.

Yes, I read where you said that earlier, and if they did, then I'm not impressed with that either.  Apparently my previous comment that I dislike it "regardless of which side it's coming from" must have been overlooked and not carefully read, but that is a common problem on forums  So, the point is that whether it's Wysong or whoever, it makes no difference to me.  I was only commenting about Wysong because it was their critiques I was reading here.  When I discuss foods on these threads, it's not in any particular defense or support of any of them.  I'm just discussing.  I've concluded that sometimes it's not very productive. 

I suppose if they left out the names with any company that didn't directly mention them(Wysong)- it'd probably be better(for those sensitive to these kinds of things).

One does not need to be sensitive to something to merely have certain beliefs or philosophies.  I held these beliefs before I even knew Wysong existed.  Although I can't speak for anyone else, I ultimately don't care what Wysong does, and I haven't  given any of this a second thought since reading it, neither have I felt sensitive to it , so evidently Wysong's critiques are not that important in my life. 

...Notice now-a-days they no longer have Wysong on the list.  But also notice they do still target the other companies and their ingredients. (Again..if Wysong just did it that way- it'd be fine with you guys? Ok...)

What about it isn't fine?  I already said I do not fault them for their right to do what they are doing.  I just don't have to share the same business philosophy.  I am who I am.  It's like the workplace.  There are people who work their way up by discrediting others and competing.  It's the most common way, instead of relying strictly on their own merits.  It's actually a more effective, efficient, faster, and easier means, but it's just not for me.  The world is made up of different kinds of people, with different values.  I don't see that there is anything to argue about.  We are all different, that's all.  As for Natura no longer having Wysong on the list, maybe they decided their food was too good for that.

I've found a lot more information on Wysong's website than anywhere else.  Their common sense- as you can see in their response to Innova..is refreshing.

Yes, I mentioned that their information was good and that they bring up some good points.  In fact, they mention several things that I completely agree with, but which rarely get brought up and are definitely accurate.  I think this kind of scrutinization on pet food is positive, but would prefer it from an uninvolved, reputable third party or agency.

As for their comments on the pet food recall...I'll admit I never saw it- only people alluding to it.  I did read the long pages they still do have up on it...including their claim that they received both positive and negative on the post you're referring to.  One thing I do know..none of their foods were on the recall list.

We all know none of their foods were on the recall list.  As for their comments about Menu, a link to a cached page was posted earlier in this thread, so many of us had a chance to read it, but that cache is gone now and the page in no longer available.  It's too bad Wysong deleted that page from their website.  They must have thought they made a grave error with their statements.  If not, then why didn't they stand by it? If so, then own up to it and apologize.  Removing it is unfortunate.  I almost saved that page to my computer, and then didn't because I thought it would still be around. I was wrong. 

I'd like to re-post the link you gave earlier: http://www.wysong.net/faqpets.shtml#companydebates As anyone can see...there's just one small section on "trashing"

No, I think Jenny was talking about the several links on that page under the "debates" heading that lead other pages of critiques on other pet food companies.  I don't think she was talking about just that one page.  There are actually several pages criticizing other companies.

[Magwheelz]

Davis..it wasn't overlooked(I don't have time to do a point by point response like you did)..I actually meant your second post- to Jenny.  It wasn't exactly "regardless of which side it's coming from". This was AFTER it was pointed out that Innova does indeed do the same thing.

I think I did find the post you're referring to:  http://itchmoforums.com/index.php?topic=238.msg3058#msg3058
 
If that's it..I'm as pissed off as you are. But for Wysong taking it down, not for what they said.  I suppose because *supposedly* so many were offended, they decided to do so. But look at that thread. Look at all the outrage(I'm being sarcastic here). You'd think it'd be 20 pages long.  It seems the not boycotting Menu is what got people most upset...I really don't see much wrong in what Wysong is saying there, especially given this was soon after the recall started.

Maybe the way it was discussed here and in that other thread at itchmoforums..made me think they were saying worse things than they were.  Guess I was set up for "your pets are dying..get over it" kind of language.  But then again I'm thinking..that can't be the post you guys are referring to 

No, I think Jenny was talking about the several links on that page under the "debates" heading that lead other pages of critiques on other pet food companies.  I don't think she was talking about just that one page.  There are actually several pages criticizing other companies.

That's what I was referring to. That section out of everything else on that page(other links to other pages there too).

[Davis]

[

Davis..it wasn't overlooked(I don't have time to do a point by point response like you did)..I actually meant your second post- to Jenny.  It wasn't exactly "regardless of which side it's coming from". This was AFTER it was pointed out that Innova does indeed do the same thing.

Hi Magswheels.  Oh, you said my first post.  Either way, it makes no difference.  I do not see anything in my second post that wasn't "regardless".  It was simply a response to what I'd read on Wysong's website. If I had been posting about the same thing I'd just read from Natura, I would have been saying basically the same thing in reverse.  My response to Jenny was after the charts were mentioned, so I thought that those were the nature of the criticism you had referred to, and to me that was not exactly the same thing.  I have not read or seen Natura's direct criticisms, so I cannot comment on any specifics there.

Later, when I have time, I'll read that link you left to see if it's the same tirade that caused all the controversy.  Thanks for posting it.
   

[Magwheelz]

But again..that's my point. I DID point out Natura did the same thing- and even had more companies listed.  I guess it'd have to be in their section to get a response? 

Hmmm..Wellness was "defending" Menu as well. Yet I don't see the outrage here..maybe at itchmo? Will have to look sometime.

[garypen]

It's the way that Wysong talks about other companies and situations that I don't care for. Their food may be great. I don't know. I don't care. They're way down on my list mostly due to attitude. I may actually get there, as the list seems to get smaller each passing day with all of the bullshit this industry does. But, I still won't like their attitude.

[jenny]

I guess I haven't seen either of the posts you mention.  I see on Natura's page a 'compare brands' that simply brings up information about different foods.  That is a lot different than trashing a brand.  So, as gary says 'its the way they do it'.   But maybe they did something more direct previously. 

I also didn't see anything from Wellness defending Menu.  I do know they use menu. 
I think my opinion seems to match pretty close to gary's and davis.  I may someday evaluate Wysong food, but it is pretty far down on my list. 

[sylvia]

  Sure makes a lot of sense to me. Why use a food that is recommended by one of Jenny's favorite experts, that has not had a whisper of a problem through all of this fiasco, that is of excellent quality, offers multiple choices to include the vegetarian, the no grain "believer",the allergic animal, etc., etc. when you can keep switching your pets around on foods and companies that keep upsetting and disappointing you?  Not to mention what this does to the little guys' digestive symptoms.
In retrospect perhaps Wysong's criticisms of other foods might have been right on target after all ?
Just to make things clear I did use it for many years. Decided it was time for a change so am using other foods currently but would not hesitate to go back to Wysong in the future. Just happen to believe there is no "one complete food" and believe in change periodically.
The fact that other companies criticize competitors and lie about the quality of their own foods does  that not bother you? Well my dogs are happy, very healthy and long lived with LOW vet bills but then I don't allow over vaccination either!  Have a good week and watch out for the botulism this week.
 

[jenny]

You are free to use whatever food you want.  Some of us, not just me, decided we didn't like Wysongs politics. Each of us has to make our own decisions based on what we think is best for the health and well being of our pets. 

Hey Davis - I just read your last long post - I agree 100 %.