Expertise should be listed

[sylvia]

I have been following everyone's posts for a while now and one thing concerns me. People are giving information on ingredients used, nutritional information, and other information out that would require a professional background. If someone has an expertise in animal nutrition, nutrition, veterinary medicine, research chemistry, FDA or any related field I would love to know it and hear what you have to say in regard to the nutrition, ingredients or make up of various pet foods but please identify yourself by stating your background.  If not it would be better if people stuck to their personal experiences with a given food and stayed away from the scientific analysis. I have seen some instances of possibly serious misinformation here and on some of the other blogs. It helps no one if misinformation is spread. I am a teacher and can tell you what I like or don't and why. I can forward you to websites where information can be found. I CAN NOT analyze pet foods nor should I try.
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Have a great weekend everyone. It is gorgeous here at the Jersey shore today!

[Cindy Nevarez]

A lot of good that did the pet food industry. We have to go it alone now.

[garypen]

But, it does add at least some credability to a nutritional statement, if the poster was an expert in some field, or at the very least provided the source for their information.

[Mary K]

Amen, Cindy! That is what we are all here at the Forum for. Most of us are lay people, wanting to change things. Lots are from the School of Experience. We are learning who's opinions we trust and making friends along the way. I think we are all intelligent enough to realize not one person here is infallible. And a quote I see every day is "what works for some won't work for others". The number of Forum guests and members shows that we must be doing something right!

[Cindy Nevarez]

You betcha! And it will keep growing. 'Cause; "We're mad as hell, and we're not going to take it anymore!"
Yell it from your rooftops, Folks!

[Caylynn]

Excellent idea!  If people could put their credentials in their signatures, that might be a good idea.  I'll go edit my signature now.  (B.Sc.Eng. in biological engineering, with (human) nutrition studies)

Of course, people can lie about their expertise.  No one knows if the person is telling the truth.   Sad, but true.

[Lisa C]

In particular, I've been concerned reading some of the posts in which someone states that a certain ingredient is bad for cats or dogs.  For instance, potatoes or alfalfa or cranberries.  On another forum, I even read someone who claimed that all fruits and vegetables were harmful to cats.

The way I see it, there are different opinions as to what constitutes proper nutrition for dogs and cats, just like for humans.  Raw vs. homecooked vs. no grains etc....  Each person has to decide.  However, I'd really hate to see someone avoid a good food because one person claims that this or that ingredient is absolutely horrible.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're going to give specific nutritional advice, please let us know where you're coming from (credentials, sources, etc.).  Everyone is trying to wade through all of the info out there, and  it would be helpful.  We all have experiences with different foods, but if you're going to make blanket statements why a particular ingredient is good or bad, could you please share why?  I'd like to know the whole story so I can make the best decisions for my pets.   

Everyone here has so much to share and I want to be able to get as much out of that as possible.

[Davis]

I think we can get carried away with placing demands on what people should or should not post in terms of diet.  I don't have a problem with people saying that they have heard or read this or that about what is good for a pet, which usually does not include any analysis (agreed - analysis would be taking it too far).  I don't necessarily take it as gospel.  I do my own research and look it up.  Any of you can do that.  It is not that difficult to do a search for something when someone states these things. 

Usually people are not giving advice, but merely stating what they do not want in the food or what they have read is bad.  That is not the same as giving advice.  We are just sharing information.  Also, if you look around this forum, you will find some useful information, but even then, you are still left with the dilemma of whether of not to trust the original source of the information, whether it is a link or whatever.  And the same dilemma exists in trusting someone just because they have some sort of credential.  After all, there are plenty of people with credentials working in the pet food industry and turning out unhealthy food for our pets.  What do these credientials really prove?  Even expert opinions vary.  People can also lie about credentials.

I have left some good links to nutritional resources in the cat nutrition forum.  Take them for what they are worth.  I'm certainly not denying that it is helpful to have the source for all comments of this nature, but I would hate to have to repost those links every time I briefly mention what I have read.  I have wondered where the proof is for why fruits and vegetables "are" good for cats, since these things are put in commercial foods regularly now.  I would feel more comfortable if I knew there was proof for these things being healthy for the pet, instead of looking for evidence of why they are not good.  I'm looking at it from the other angle.  This isn't easy for any of us.  In the end, we all have to make up our own minds what information to trust and what not to.

[Davis]

Lisa, I understand what you're saying.  I've heard many people talking about certain herbs, fruits, and vegetables as bad, so I did my own research and did find many references that confirmed this (assuming that we can even trust those references).  I don't have them all bookmarked and available right now, but when I do, I will post some of them in the appropriate forum. 

I have talked about rotating a pet's diet to avoid toxic buildups caused by feeding the same food.  For example, there is a huge trend for putting apples and potatoes in natural pet foods.  Our pets, especially cats, may be more sensitive to toxins in these foods than humans, because of their small size and sensitive kidneys, so it might be safer not to feed it to them everyday.  I "personally" prefer to be extra cautious, but everyone else can decide accordingly.  Even humans have been warned not to eat certain things too regularly, such as potatoes, tuna (mercury), etc.  I'm certainly not giving advice, but merely sharing common knowledge about our food supply.  I do have a fair amount of background and education in nutrition, but I honestly don't feel that it's particularly relevant in terms of pets, which I have not specifically studied...yet . Unfortunately I do not know of any study confirming harm in pets either way, which is why this is so difficult...and maybe this trend is too recent to see any long-term effects, if they do exist.  I have a link that lists the top toxic (heavy pesticide) fruits and veggies.  I hope this helps.  You can also find many other sources for this.  Here you go:
http://www.healthycookingrecipes.com/articles-submit/denise-palmer/12-most-toxic-fruits-vegies.html     

[Lisa C]

Davis, you make some really good points.  I wasn't trying to call for any rules, though, just a personal request that maybe people think twice about telling someone "don't feed x food because it contains y."  I have read such statements on these boards.  Advice is great, and I just would like people to represent it as advice, not as a statements of fact.

Doing your own research is the best (I think), but not everyone does that.  Also, there is the larger problem, which you elude to, that not all sources are equal.  The internet is such a maze--I can find 10 pages that say raw diets will cure everything from allergies to cancer, and I can find 10 more that say that feeding raw will kill your pet.  IMHO, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but how can you really know?

But that's also what I like about these forums--there are so many people here with so many opinions, and it's great to be able to hear all of the points of view.  The only thing I don't like is the people who are recommending  specific foods or kinds of nutrition who also have a financial stake in their advice.  Whether or not they're right, there is a bias there.  Other than that, I hope that people continue to share their own experiences and things they've learned.  It's been really great to be able to read it all.

[Davis]

Lisa, I agree completely with everything you said.  And yes, I think it's only natural to be a little uncomfortable when someone has a financial stake in their advice. The best credibility is usually built on objectivity. 

[Therese]

Similar to what Davis mentioned, I think we all need to be mindful that this forum is not much different than a bunch of friends sitting around after dinner talking. Whether it's what type of car is safest, what dentist is the best, or in our case, what pet food may be good...for the most part we are expressing our opinions. Listening to the opinions other people have may certainly give us some new info to research, new insight into a particular food, or we may even pick up a few new facts. In the end though, each of us is responsible for our own decisions...whether we base them on what we know to be fact or what we heard someone express as a theory.

Another thing to keep in mind is that one expert, with credentials, may say a particular type of food is the absolute best and healthiest way to feed our pets. Another expert, with the same credentials, may say the very same type of food is the absolute worst way to feed a pet.

If people want to mention their credentials, that's great though! It gives us all a better idea of where people get their opinions...and maybe even facts.

[kaffe]

The reason I am prowling and reading various bloggs is becuase I want to see anecdotal reports from pet guardians themselves about their first hand experiences with this or that pet food, this or that vitamin supplement, etc.  It is from these anecdotal reports that we (I anyway), get the first intimations that something may not be quite right with this or that pet food, supplement, toy, etc.  I WILL NOT wait for the Official admissions of pet food manufacturers that something is amiss with their products... it may be too late for my furkids.  Menu Foods sat on the recall for 3 weeks while they waited for their accredited lab technicians and nutritionists and several dead cats to verify that INDEED the complaints and reports they recieved from grief-stricken pet parents were TRUE - Pet parents with no other credentials than that they LOVE their pets and they KNOW something is wrong and have connected the dots to tainted pet food.


You know what I'm saying?

[Caylynn]

Excellent point Therese.  Even in human nutrition (which is where my knowledge lies) although the "experts" can agree on the basics of good nutrition, anything beyond that is still open to much debate (ie. is milk good for you - there is no doubt that calcium is necessary for human health, but in adults, is cow milk the best way to obtain that calcium, just to mention one topic that is often debated among registered dietitians.)

I'm going to have to do a journal search, and see what articles I can find on cat nutrition in peer-reviewed journals.  Even then, two studies will often have contradictory results due to a variety of confounding factors (the same thing often occurs in human studies - often it is difficult to eliminate all the confounding variables.)  Non-scientists tend to get frustrated with these contradictions, but that's just the way science works!

[Therese]

Excellent point Therese.  Even in human nutrition (which is where my knowledge lies) although the "experts" can agree on the basics of good nutrition, anything beyond that is still open to much debate

Wouldn't it be nice if there was ONE right answer for everything concerning food?! lol