Home made diet

[mel_t]

Hi, I failed to include the quote by Raw4pets above in my last post to explain my last  statement. Raw4pets states "

The domesticated cat has the same organs and insides as does the lion or tiger.  When was the last time you saw a lion or tiger eating veggies, or kibble?

I basically agree that cats were designed to eat meat, but I couldn't help myself but to mention about the grass and plants above in reply to that quote !   

ah, so you were being a little tongue in cheek!  didn't pick up on that without the quote

[Davis]

When I was a kid, we had an outdoor cat (an adopted stray) that mostly ate birds, along with small amounts of what we fed him, which consisted of scrap meat and occasionally his least favorite food--cat food (which he despised and barely picked at)  He was very self-sufficient.  The funny thing is that he always went into the neighbor's garden and stole veggies.  I'm not saying this is normal.  I'm sure it isn't and he was just an oddball, but he did munch on plants quite frequently.  He once came into the yard dragging a whole corn stock between his legs and proceeded to tear into the cob and eat it.  It was pretty funny.

I am NOT suggesting cats should be fed grains or veggies.  In fact, I believe completely the opposite.  But in observing their behavior in the "wild", I have seen that some of them do seek these things out.  My mom currently has an outdoor stray (in addition to her indoor cat) that she took on purely out of compassion.  She feeds her as an addition to her diet, but she is a superb hunter and she mainly eats birds, lizards, rodents, chipmunks and baby rabbits.  It's true that they leave the stomach.  She never eats that part.  However, everyday she also generously chews on the grass and other greens that grow in the yard.  She doesn't seem to throw up from it, so it seems that she just likes or craves it.  I also know someone whose cat occasionally helps himself to certain veggies out in the garden. And if I recall, Mary had a stray that was eating the bird seed out of her bird feeder.  The difference is that these cats are able to control and limit these things in their diet, whereas when they are fed a steady excessive amount of it, as in commercial pet food, that is a major problem.  But it's just simply not true that they never eat any of these things in their natural enviroments.

[mel_t]

The difference is that these cats are able to control and limit these things in their diet, whereas when they are fed a steady excessive amount of it, as in commercial pet food, that is a major problem.  But it's just simply not true that they never eat any of these things in their natural enviroments.

I think that's a good point, Davis.  For whatever reason they are eating them in the wild - to vomit, maybe settle stomach or just because of some weird neurosis (because a cat eating cobs of corn or bird seed is definitely the exception, not the rule) - it is them that is controlling it. 

Furthermore, as I think about this, just because they are doing this doesn't mean they need it (as you say).  there's a condition called Pica where people eat inappropriate things like dirt, clay, sponges etc because of either neuroses or a deficiency in their diet (e.g. anemia) So if you use the argument that they nibble grass etc so therefore they need veggies in their diet, does that mean that people need dirt in their diet too?

[Davis]

Furthermore, as I think about this, just because they are doing this doesn't mean they need it (as you say).  there's a condition called Pica where people eat inappropriate things like dirt, clay, sponges etc because of either neuroses or a deficiency in their diet (e.g. anemia) So if you use the argument that they nibble grass etc so therefore they need veggies in their diet, does that mean that people need dirt in their diet too?

Of course.  I couldn't agree more.  Look at all the things that humans eat that they don't "need".  And it's so funny that you mentioned pica, because I almost included that in my post.  By the way, I personally was not using it as an argment, since I believe as you do, but only pointing out that when people say "never", it just isn't true.  The reason for the bizarre behavior is another matter.

[mel_t]

Furthermore, as I think about this, just because they are doing this doesn't mean they need it (as you say).  there's a condition called Pica where people eat inappropriate things like dirt, clay, sponges etc because of either neuroses or a deficiency in their diet (e.g. anemia) So if you use the argument that they nibble grass etc so therefore they need veggies in their diet, does that mean that people need dirt in their diet too?

Of course.  I couldn't agree more.  Look at all the things that humans eat that they don't "need".  And it's so funny that you mentioned pica, because I almost included that in my post.  By the way, I personally was not using it as an argment, since I believe as you do, but only pointing out that when people say "never", it just isn't true.  The reason for the bizarre behavior is another matter.

I got that you weren't using it as an argument.  I was just expanding on what you were saying.  It's interesting to have these conversations, because it really starts you thinking about it. (not that I haven't been thinking about it in depth for the past year)

[Davis]

I got that you weren't using it as an argument.  I was just expanding on what you were saying.  It's interesting to have these conversations, because it really starts you thinking about it. (not that I haven't been thinking about it in depth for the past year)

I got that you probably got it. I just thought I should clarify it again.  You're right, it really makes you think, doesn't it?  It also makes you think about the way humans eat, and how what we desire and enjoy is not necessarily what is good for us.  I suppose it can be the same for an animal.  Good grief, I'd say my cat is a classic example of that. 

[Cindy Nevarez]

I would have to agree with this. All my cats are rescues, and they all have had at one time or another dietary quirks. The 12 year old male is the most notorious; he used to go nuts for some of your corn chips, now he goes nuts for a potato chip or two.

Both the 18 year old female Minette and the 12 year old male Quincy (above) want to eat grass just to throw up.

[Cindy Nevarez]

The argument could be made that they need the minerals that are in the dirt. My husband grew up very poor, and used to eat the "good" dirt that his Dad used to plant in trees with. It was determined later that he was mineral-deficient.

[cw]

... It also makes you think about the way humans eat, and how what we desire and enjoy is not necessarily what is good for us.  I suppose it can be the same for an animal.  Good grief, I'd say my cat is a classic example of that. 

Yeah, that's true.  People - especially North Americans - love to eat what isn't good for them. When was the last time you were just craving a salad?! No? How about fries?  It seems the same is true for animals that live with people. Dogs will eat chocolate, and cats will drink antifreeze. Cats will also eat flowers, some of which are poisonous to them.

I once dropped a marshmallow on the floor, and the cat came over and started licking it!

I like the idea of feeding cats a natural diet, but only one that's scientifically sound. There needs to be a reason based on nutrition to include ingredients, beyond just the observation that cats will eat them.

[Davis]

I once dropped a marshmallow on the floor, and the cat came over and started licking it!

That's funny.  But the cat may not be too far off on that one, since marshmallows are made of gelatin, which is bone protein, and they sometimes have egg white in them too.  So, marshmallows are basically protein, with simple sugars and starches added.  Maybe your cat was attracted to the protein.

I like the idea of feeding cats a natural diet, but only one that's scientifically sound. There needs to be a reason based on nutrition to include ingredients, beyond just the observation that cats will eat them.

I agree.  I think it can be compared to parents and children.  I wise and caring parent is not going to allow their child to live on candy and fries, even though that may be what the child wants.  Our pets are the same.  The desires of pets and children are obviously not always the best thing to follow when it comes to planning their diet. 

[Cindy Nevarez]

The problem with that though Davis is that many believe themselves to be "wise and caring" both pet and child parents, but they don't know their butt from a cantalope regarding good nutrition for either species. So they go along thinking they are doing the right thing.

Part of the problem with people is that they think if someone "is in the business" they MUST know what their talking about, i.e.; Doctors, vets, people who make pet food...hell even pet sitters! And they figure those "in the know" are going to tell them straight, or sell them safe and healthy products for both their kids and their pets. I have to deal with my own clients who fall into this category every day. No matter what they are told, or what "proof" is offered, the "higher" authority always takes priority...and those are the ones believed. That's why this tragedy is so insidious.

[Davis]

The problem with that though Davis is that many believe themselves to be "wise and caring" both pet and child parents, but they don't know their butt from a cantalope regarding good nutrition for either species. So they go along thinking they are doing the right thing.

Yes, but I'm not talking about the ones who "believe" they are wise and caring, but the ones who actually are.  I'm talking about those who really do know what they are doing.  I'm thinking back on my childhood and how my mother never let me eat what I wanted.  She was right.  I appreciate it now, but you couldn't have convinced me of anything reasonable at that time.  I saw other kids being allowed by their parents to eat all kinds of junk. Ha, I felt deprived. I'm sure some of those parents might have "believed" they were wise and caring in the food department, but that doesn't mean they were.  Most likely they just didn't give a darn.  They ate like that, so they fed their kids the same way.  If they admitted there was something wrong with it, then they would have to admit their own eating habits are unhealthy, and they don't want to because they don't want to change.

Part of the problem with people is that they think if someone "is in the business" they MUST know what their talking about, i.e.; Doctors, vets, people who make pet food...hell even pet sitters! And they figure those "in the know" are going to tell them straight, or sell them safe and healthy products for both their kids and their pets. I have to deal with my own clients who fall into this category every day. No matter what they are told, or what "proof" is offered, the "higher" authority always takes priority...and those are the ones believed. That's why this tragedy is so insidious.

We could apply that to all kinds of things in life.    You can look at it from the other angle too.  If they're going to be skeptical of the people "in the know", then they need to apply that to everyone who tells them anything.  In the end, we should all be doing our own research, and then making informed decisions from there.  Sometimes it's best not to listen to "anyone".  But yes, people often listen to the wrong people.  I lost my faith in vets (and human drs) a long time ago.  And there is just about no limit to how many "experts" in other areas of life I think are full of it.

[Cindy Nevarez]

Yep!

I lost my trust to Dr's when I was misdiagnosed of an ectopic pregnancy back in 83' even though there was already documented classic symptoms at that time...I was told it "was all in my head." I guess they knew it wasn't when the thing ruptured!

And vets...don't get me started. Some of the most arrogant people I have known have been vets!

My all time favorites though are those reps in Pet Smart pushing their food...like the one Babs was talking about in an earlier post. When I USED to go to that store it was occasionally kinda fun to render them speechless with info they had no clues about!

[cw]

That's funny.  But the cat may not be too far off on that one, since marshmallows are made of gelatin, which is bone protein, and they sometimes have egg white in them too.  So, marshmallows are basically protein, with simple sugars and starches added.  Maybe your cat was attracted to the protein.

It was quite funny. I never really made the gelatin-protein connection, but that makes sense.

I think it can be compared to parents and children.  I wise and caring parent is not going to allow their child to live on candy and fries, even though that may be what the child wants.  Our pets are the same.  The desires of pets and children are obviously not always the best thing to follow when it comes to planning their diet. 

Yeah, I agree.  It's amazing how many parents I see giving in to their children on the "I want _____", although in fairness, my only 'children' have been animals so what do I know.

[cw]

In this so-called "information age" that we're living in, one of the biggest challenges is sorting fact from fiction.  Any moron can have a website - and usually does. Yet the best, most up to date, and least biased info is generally on the web as well. It certainly isn't in the oldspaper (newspaper), or on the idiot box.  I think the key is to keep a critical mind, and not give in to appeals of authority and other irrational arguments. If an 'expert' (Dr., Vet., 'net poster, etc.) is correct, their statements will stand up to scrutiny.