Well, if anything I've said has suggested that I'm "defending" Natura, who I find thoroughly disgusting at this moment in time, then I give up.  All I was saying is that the "appearance" of "some" of the pictures did not alarm me.  The same does not hold true for the tests, and I never said it did.  I'm sure there are other companies using that premix, or other Chinese vits that have the potential for being tainted, but maybe that is just ignorance and stupidity on my part.

Wellness is a cure for fleas?  I'm glad that it's a good food, especially since I just ordered some a couple of days ago, but I'm not buying into any miracle cures.

I'm getting the Salmon dry formula.  After checking the analysis, it was a little lower in phosphorus, yet the protein content was the same as the other formulas.  That looked good for my cat.  Now if they'd just remove the garlic.

There was a time when most of us did not want to purchase any foods from companies that used Menu, or at least did not vow to discontinue using them.  Now it seems that we have all caved in for lack of options.  How unfortunate.  And in this case there is a possible ANI connection as well, or some unknown.  Sigh.....  Our pocket books don't seem to be talking very well.

And if it was the vitamins, then other pet foods would/could result in some similar tests.  I don't know what is lurking in the ingredients that go into my cookies, since I don't have them tested.  With the way things are, could be anything these days.  Hey,I think maybe my cookies cure headaches as good as tylenol.  Hmmmm.... 

The problem is obviously these companies (Natura in particular) paint themselves in such angelic light, as if they can do no wrong. Then when something does go wrong, and it's handled so poorly, the whole thing turns into a sort of crusade. What's so sad is that Natura could have avoided this on nearly every level, but have instead dropped the proverbial ball every single time it has landed in their court.

Yes, a crusade is a very good description.  It's too bad they cannot live up to the picture they paint.  But it's odd that they would go so far in the opposite direction, even knowing what is being said about it, which makes me wonder if there isn't more to this and we do not have the full story.  It's very strange.

All they had to do was admit to a problem in limited production runs; point out that no animals were reported injured; describe the problem, so that people know what to look for; recall the affected foods as a precautionary measure; and offer refunds to anyone returning any Natura product for any reason.

I couldn't have said it better myself.  That is it exactly!  So why didn't they?  It makes me think that they themselves are holding strong convictions that the food runs are fine, even if less than perfectly mixed, and they are afraid all their other loyal customers that do not know about this would question the quality for no reason.  It's the only thing I can figure.  I just looked at the pics from the link that Jenny posted earlier in this thread (thank goodness someone finally put it together on one page).  The pic of the Cal Nat cat food looks about like some of the food I've been known to make when I don't mix things perfectly  (which is usually).  It actually looks a lot like my homemade cookies. , because they always have spots of them.  For whatever reason, that does not alarm me, but their PR does.  (I also noticed on that link that they showed the Evo powder and someone was talking about their pet sneezing.  That is exactly what my cat did!!)

I wonder if part of the vitriol being shown towards Natura is that people are really feeling betrayed. Natura was SUPPOSED to be better then the others. Better food, better people. My perception is that currently they are treating this situation like any other corporation.

Geff, I think you've nailed it.  It's that people did not expect anything but the highest concern and compassion from this company, and they have really let people down.

Geff, have you thought about maybe calling Pet Promise and see what they have to say?  Maybe you could find out more about their ingredients, sourcing, etc.  The veggie proteins are a bit scary, but maybe you could get some satisfactory answers.  It really seems that you have very few options.  It can't hurt to call them. 

Ha!  I knew it.  I had you figured for the musician type Geff.  I imagine you ran into all sorts of unusual situations. 

I'm reminded of a self help author named Melody Beatty who pointed out to a woman that picking out a boyfriend strictly on the basis that he won't beat her isn't exactly functional.............

ROFL....Good one!  At least I'm getting some good laughs out of all this.  Thanks Geff. 

Hi Gary - Thanks for the tip. I just looked at Anergen. Unfortunately it's heavy on the herbs & also uses Garlic & Seafood oil.

don't tell "Doctor" Wysong that. He's liable to post a scathing rebuttal on his website. 

  LOL, that's about right.  I can see the page now:  "Rebuttal to Geff, from The Pet food List"

Their customer service is what is killing them here.

I agree completely.  Why can't they see that?  They need to change before it's too late.  But consider this--- many people out there without knowledge of this will continue to be customers.  I wonder how much of an impact those of us who know about this will really have on their sales. 

So, when I made the decision to switch dry foods for my dry addicted IBD cat, I chose Wellness Core over Natura's EVO (the EVO has a nasty powdery residue too)

Boy, I know what you mean.  The powder is awful.  I am no longer using Evo for that reason.  My cat finally got use to it and even started eating the powder, so there was not that much waste, but it made him sneeze.  Enough already.   

I, as many other regular itchmo posters, think there is a clear quality issue with some of the batches of food and believe those batches should be recalled.  I really don't know what to make of the poison issue - so won't even cover that.  However, the evidence is very clear from itcho that there is a quality issue with some of the food.  There is just too much evidence to the contrary.  And keep in mind, that those very same itchmo posters that you call 'cult like' are the very same that helped uncover things during the heat of the recalls.  I applaud their efforts even if I do not always agree.  I think they deserve our respect.

They have our respect.  I was not referring to any posters in particular and am very grateful that this was publicized.  As a result, I am looking for another food.  However, that thread has taken on a magnitude and popularity the likes of which I have never seen, and has become like an entire movement which so many people have jumped into, unlike any other pet foods issues I have seen, even the worst of them.  So, in that sense it has become somewhat cult-like (a cohesive group of people with shared beliefs or who are working toward one goal), which does not necessarily mean bad, but just cult-like.  It's not always negative, but can have positive connotations as well, depending on the situation.  I just hope that something good eventually comes of this, even if it is that my cat and others will be eating an even better food, whether because Natura fixed this or because we switched.  I'm not holding out much hope in Natura changing their ways, but that would be nice.

I agree that this can, and did, happen to other pet food companies.  The test is how they handle the situation when it does.  And Natura has been awful.

Absolutely!!!   Whether any further tests reveal anything questionable or not has become less important than their PR right now.  Sometimes I wonder...if they had been greeted with less indignation, anger, and caustic accusations, if maybe they would have been more receptive to people's concerns.   But as a company, it's their responsibility to be able to look beyond that.  That is a part of being in business.

HA!! You know though...any one of those lying dogs would be better than some of the lying dogs I've met online LOL

ROFL!!!!    That is too funny Therese!!  Boy, can I ever relate!

Bravo Geff!  Great letter.  I hope they take it to heart.

Thanks Sylvia.  I completely agree with what you're saying.  This is a serious problem.  I'm glad you suggested the forum, and that you found my article helpful.  I think this forum will be useful for discussions on both pet and people vaccine issues.

Nobody is forced to trust anybody or anything. You choose to have a certain amount of trust, or, in your case, you don't.

Yes, you're right, it's not trust that is forced.  I just used that term because you had put it that way, and couldn't figure out how to re-word it.  Let me see if I can explain.  If I purchase a food, it is not because I have trust, but because there is a need.  Trust often has nothing to do with it, which is unfortunate.  I don't necessarily associate trust with a purchase.  That is what is forced, by circumstances.  I make purchases every day based on need and not trust.  There is a need, usually without my ability to trust the quality of the supply.  This is of particular concern with pet food, for obvious reasons.

What about the food you eat. The supplements you take. The restaurants you go to? In terms of your homemade foods for your pets...What about the stores you buy your fresh ingredients from? Or, the companies that make the canned or bottled ingredients? Why do you afford them more trust?

I don't afford them more trust.  I simply have no choice.  I don't have property, a farm, and I can't grow all my own food.  For what it's worth, I don't eat in restaurants, don't take supplements, and minimize foods that contain them, but that is somewhat irrelevant.  I do the best I can to make the best choices possible that I can afford.  It is not about trust.  I do not expect to live forever, neither do I even want to.  I am not immortal, no matter what I eat. This life is temporary.  While I'm here, I do the best I can.  At the moment I'm more concerned about my cat, who I love dearly.  He will not live forever either, but I don't want him to suffer needlessly.  He is weaker now than he was when he was young and has a much more fragile system than I do.

Exactly. So, other than being all pissed off, what do you propose we  do as a nation to ensure safe foods and drugs for our citizens and our pets?

Gosh, lighten up Gary.  I'm just voicing my overall dissatisfaction with a system that we cannot, as a "we", have the desired amount of control over.  I was certainly not directing my comments at you.  All your points were well taken. "Pissed" is a term I don't like, and in my case, it's an overstatement.  But if they are listening, then they understand this is highly important to us.  I have things I do as an individual that are very important to me, in which I try to make a difference.  They are very personal.

Then you need to balance your financial resources with what is available.

I do that, but I'm even willing to go without so that he can have the best.  However, it just seems that prices are way out of control in every area.  That is all I was saying.   

You should be able to come up with a solution. Maybe a less expensive dry food. But, one that hasn't had any illness or death associated with it, either officially or anecdotally. Many of the mainstream brands, despite not being the healthiest things out there, have not been linked to any illness or death. Since your cat eats mostly homemade, and only relies on dry for in-between meal nibbling, it might be OK.

Yes, I agree.  I hate to say it, but Cal Nat would almost fit that description (other than the anecdotal complaints).  Then again, there is the matter of talking with our pocket books....one of the most important ways in which we can influence, so I hesitate to even consider that route.  Gosh, how sad that it has come to picking a food based on lack of illness or death.  Thanks for all the input.   I really appreciate it, and I did not mean to make you mad.  I was just commiserating about the condition of things these days.

Hi dingbat,

Thanks for the clarification.  I completely understand why you had to do what you did over there.  I have seen the types of posts you are referring to, and I think most of us with any sense understand why it was necessary to make those rules.  I'm just grateful that, so far, we have had a much more friendly, peaceful, and sensible group (only a few bumps in the road on occasion), and I hope that never becomes necessary here.  I am also glad they are watching!  Maybe they will learn something. 

Here is a link to a long but extremely informative "must read" article on cats and vaccines.  I found the following paragraph especially noteworthy:

Feline vaccines are commonly grown in Crandall-Reese Feline Kidney ("CRFK") cells. As a consequence, feline vaccines contain CRFK proteins. A study conducted by Colorado State University showed that only one injection of the common feline three-in-one vaccination (FVRCP) led to production of anti-kidney antibodies. This study indicates that vaccination could be a cause for chronic renal failure in cats.

Full article: http://www.blakkatz.com/vaccination.html