Has anyone tried C.E.T. Oral Hygiene Chews for Cats?

Dental treats are usually garbage, but this actually looks good:

Ingredients: Freeze-dried fish, antioxidant (containing tocopherols, ascorbic acid, natural flavor, and citric acid), dextrose, glucose oxidase, lactoperoxidase.

What do you guys think?

I am still trying to find a good toothpaste, but even when I do find one, I don;t think Stefie will cooperate with brushing every day, my objective is to get it done 1-2 times a week.

I tried it, it smelled very fishy but my cats weren't interested at all.

That doesn't mean it isn't good food, mine are just a bit more picky than usual. They didn't like Tiki either, and they refused Almo nature as well.

Sometimes they even refuse foods they used to like if they've been eating for a while. They are used to more variety than they are getting at the moment, I'm afraid. Got them octopus sashimi for dinner the other night, they sure loved that!

I have started another thread with summary of unanswered questions from this one.

I appreciate the fact that your food has tested safe, and I hope more pet food manufacturers will start testing their food. However, I do not appreciate waiting for weeks to hear "this information is proprietary" and I also get that impression that you are being evasive.

What I or other people think about your style does not matter. What matters is whether you are providing clear and succint answers. In my opinion, you provide lengthy answers with very little information in them. I hope you are not taking this as a personal attack, that is definitely not my intention. I am just trying to explain the imrpession that me and some other people here get from your answers to some simple questions.

Some questions for Evy, I have summarized all unanswered questions from "Ingredients of Kumpi" thread to make it easier.

1. Question by Lisa_C, seconded by several people:
How is meat meal made? What is the consequence of this amount of processing?

2. Related questions by Sarah:
a) Can humans eat this meat meal without harm?  
b) Exactly what parts of the animal go into meat meal?  
c) Is meat meal made in the same facilities as rendered by products?  If not then where is it made and how is it made. 
d) Who makes the meat meal?  What condition is the meat before it is made into meat meal?

Follow up question by Alek0 - does "live kill" include diseased animals?


3. Question by Alek0:
You claim that there is a big difference between proteinates and metal amino acid chelates. Please provide evidence on significant difference in bioavailability in cats for metal amino acid chelates vs. proteinates.

4. Question by Alek0:
Is ther another benefit of Yucca Schidigera besides reducing fecal odor and smell of flatulence (not amount of gas)? If yes, please cite evidence.

Again, I am not asking about the source where you buy it from, I am asking about proofs of benefit of Yucca which would justify your singling it out as a significant point of comparison with other pet foods.
5. Question by Alek0:
Which is better - chicken liver meal or freeze dried chicken liver?

6. Question by Alek0:
OK, formula is proprietary, you can't give the ratio of amino acid chelates to inorganic mineral sources. But surely you can explain why you use inorganic mineral sources at all when amino aci chelates are so superior?

Is there any reason for use of two ingredients one of which is even by your own claims clearly inferior, rather than one?

7. Question by Sarah:
I would like to get answers to my other questions, among them - you mentioned it is against the law or the FDA rules that dogs and cats cannot be used in pet food.  I looked for this law or rule but couldn't find anything about it.

We've tried that last year, but his back teeth are yellow again this year and the vet thinks proper cleaning needs to be done. I'd rather do it now when he is 7 than postpone it again for a year or two and do it when he is older.

I am still worried about it, and determined to find a suitable toothpaste so that it doesn't need to be done again. I would appreciate more recommendations.

Himimom1254, thanks for the info.

Does anyone know animal toothpaste with reasonable ingredients? Stefie will need his teeth cleaned this year (funny, his sister is fine, they eat the same food) so I'd like to try brushing his teeth to try to make sure he won;t need it again. General anesthetic for teeth cleaning terrifies me.

Stefie cooperates with a toothbrush, he actually seems to like it, but that is with no toothpaste. I haven;'t yet found one he would tolerate and I would feel comfortable with using for a long time. Why should there be any BHA in toothpaste?

This is sooooo frustrating. My cats are doing great on Serengeti, but I am really nto comfortable with all this secrecy. Pretty stupid actualy, they'll be losing a lot more customers this way with all the rumors floating around.

Now the question is what grain free food I can substitute for it? What do you guys think? Nature's Variety freeze-dried or Stella&Chewy's freeze dried? I have both at home, but haven't been using tem since I have several bags of Serengeti with the same expiry date that I have been using before with no problem.

Now I am still afraid to introduce anything new, and also afraid to continue feeding serengeti even though I've seen no problem with this batch. Although dry food is just supplementation, not sure how would it work out if they were eating more of it.

Where did you get that info? I am quite concerned since I feed Serengeti.

Mel_t,

there should be absolutely no problem with taking out or significantly reducing grains in Strombeck's recipes. The issue with just cooking the raw food recipe often does not work since the cats won;t eat it. I am begining to think that "chopped clams with juice" is the trick in Strombeck's recipes.
I am not saying they are the best thing there is, but his book has been quite informative on calcium supplements (bonemeal vs. other forms), which I haven't found elsewhere. Lots of quantitative analysis, which is good. I would appreciate better recipes for cooked though, please post if you find any.

As for Platinum Performance, I don't like it, specifically I have a problem with: Rice Bran, Soy Flour (how safe are these considering cuirrent recall situation), Cane mollases, and unspecified Natural Flavor. I am also pretty sure that Pine Bark is not a necessary nutrient for cats, that organic mineral sources would be better than sulfates, zinc yeast does not have significantly higher content than non-metal enriched yeast, etc. Basically, the biggest problem I have with it is rice bran and soy flour because of current situation.

No objection to websites by Dr. Hodgkins and Dr. pearson, but the fact that they are experienced vets is really no argument (i.e. "argument by authority" is unscientific). I know experienced vets who have healthy pets of their own who swear by Royal Canin, which is in my opinion quite bad food.

As for article by Zoran, it is indeed excellent and informative.

Now I should better get back to grading, I have this huge pile of stuff to finish. I hate exam period.

Personally, I don't particularly like it for following reasons:

1. Beef liver +vit. A supplements. Might end up to be a bit too much combined with regular food with high meat/fish content. Though number for vit. A seems rather low considering the ingredients. Also, what is the point of supplementing phosphorus? Plenty of phosphorus in meat. Not good for cats with kidney problems.

2. Cellulose and silicon dioxide are not exactly necessary ingredients.

3. Vegetable stearate ? Not exactly sure what is that.

4. Chromium picolinate. Personally I would prefer to avoid it since there is some controversy about it. Some studies (on rats though) demonstrate that it is mutagenic and causes oxidative damage of DNA and lipids.

Geff, hope you'll recover soon!

As for the disturbing (and alas not that new) trend, it is quite common. Just look at how many products (an not only pet food!) have "Nature" or "Natural" in the name or the blurb on the front of the package, and when you look at the ingredients it is anything but.

Look at Hill's Nature's best or whatever it is called. With real fish! As opposed to what? Fake fish? Or brewer's rice and corn gluten meal, two first ingredients of the food made with "highest quality ingredients found in nature". Blech.

Sorry guys, busy time at work, end of semester...

Mel_t,
I would like to reiterate that I do nto entirely agree with Strombeck's recipes, but they are still better than Pitcairn's or Frazier's. I have posted those for one reason only, and that is it is hard to find recipes with cooked cat homemade diet. I hoped to start a discussion on home cooked, since that seems my only option for home made, and I am sure there are other people who, for whatever reason, cannot or would not feed raw.

I am sure that raw diet is perfectly fine provided:
a) The main source of protein is rotated frequently
b) Sufficient supplementation is provided, and vit. A content is not too high since vit. A can be toxic.
c) The meat is fresh and safe

I would feed raw if I had a source of fresh and safe meat, which I don't. I live in Hong Kong, which means that my local meat comes from China which would definitely not be a good idea to feed raw (or to feed at all). Once or twice a week when Australian and New Zealand imports are freshly defrosted I buy those, but it makes 1-2 meals per week and it should not be frozen again according to the label.

So I feed mostly canned and supplement with dry. The canned I feed is made in Japan and contains only meat or fish, jelly, and vit. E for fish based cans. You can actually see pieces of chicken or fish when you open the can, it looks quite good, no visible junk or artficially formed "meat" pieces like in Iams. I supplement with dry for the sake of vitamin and mineral supplementation.

I would like to phase out dry entirely, but I am still searching for vitamin and mineral supplement with  normal and healthy ingredients, i.e. no fillers and no garlic, alfalafa and other stuff known to be not that good for cats. If anyone knows good vitamin/mineral supplement for cats, I'd really appreciate the info.

Alternatively, I plan to replace dry with freeze dried raw, although at the moment I am sticking with Serengeti since I have several bags with older expiry date which I know are safe (have been using them with no problem).

I just have this irrational fear of introducing new things until this whole mess is finally over and regular Friday recalls finally stop. I haven't been sleeping well since Natural Balance recall which totally shocked me, since that is one food which  used to feed before since it was (supposed to be) grain free. I don't know what will I do if recalls don't stop before I run out of existing food supply with tried expiry dates, I'll probably have a nervous breakdown. 

And, for the record, I do not think you should trust anybody just because they have a degree. That includes doctors and vets, too. Do your own research and your own thinking/ But research does not only mean Google and Wikipedia, since anyone can make a website. Internet is a good place to start, but it should not be only source of information. I may have ahigher degree than other members here, but my degree is not in animal nutrition, and I do not consider myself very knowledgable on the subject. I am stil learning, and trying to the best I can for my cats given the circumstances and limitations of my current situation (life in Hong Kong).

Recalled? Where?

Can't find any info.

Catgirl,

again, I have posted recipes from Strombeck's book for those interested in them since the book is not easily accessible. Not all people are comfortable with feeding raw, and there are very few resources for recipes for cooked food.

I have read the links you have posted, this is not the first time I have seen them. I've also read Little big cat website, and feline future and many others on raw feeding. I will read the book by Elizabeth Hodgkins when it comes out, and I have read most of the better known books on cat nutrition and recipes. Most of them have some useful information, but I have yet to find one with which I entirely agree. Again, "cats evolved eating raw food" is not a scientifically valid argument, since evolution does not favor long lifespan of an individual. Anybody can publish a book, and anybody can make a website. Peer reviewed literature does not provide evidence on superiority of raw food. Most papers are just case studies on vitamin A overdose, salmonellosis etc. The article by Zoran is excellent, but she only talks about the dangers of feeding a diet with high carbohydrate content. That article does not say anywhere "feed only raw" nor "cat diet should contain no carbohydrates".

The studies on dry food are not particularly convincing either, although with those the problem is not lack of data but rather sources of funding and possible conflicts of interest. However, I do not see anything wrong with feeding a good quality dry food essentially as a vitamin/mineral supplementation to mostly canned diet with occasional raw meal. I also think it is a better option for vitamin/mineral supplementation than most supplements on the market. This would include Platinum Performance which contains rice bran, soy flour, and cane molasses and only inorganic mineral sources. Not to mention strange ingredients like pine bark. The references cited in support of Platinum Performance do not appear to be cat related, though I'll have to check out full articles tomorrow from the office. The vit. B supplement recommended on catnutrition website contains silicon dioxide, rice bran powder, and alfalfa powder, which I do not consider as all that great ingredients for cats.

In my opinion, freeze dried raw foods or good quality dry foods are a good choice as supplementation of mainly wet diet and grain/carb free diet for cats (I use cans which are only meat or fish in jelly, with prebiotics and vit. E for fish based cans). I have formed this opinion after extensive reading. You are free to disagree with it. However, your opinion is just that, an opinion. Not even expert opinion is a proof. Each person should do their own research, critically evaluate all the information, and make a decision which they consider best.  I may revise my opinion when more information is available, or if I find a vitamin/mineral supplement I am happy with. And btw "balance" may be a word which is overused by pet food companies, but that does not mean that balance is not important.

Not too happy about that one (for cats at least) because of garlic and alfalfa. However, I am still searchng for a good multivitamin supplement since supplementation would be a must if I want to increase portion of home-prepared in my cats' diet. There are so many which are full of garbage. For taurine at least I hope to find something acceptable among bodybuilder supplements for humans.