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1  Raw Foods / General Discussion about Raw Foods / Re: Is anyone else finding that their cats vomit up raw food? on: May 12, 2007, 09:29:07 AM
I don't know what's in the Primal food that you're giving them. It may be a specific ingredient or even the texture that doesn't agree with them. It's also possible that the change is too sudden.

My girls are on raw now, after a 3 week transition period from all canned commercial. They are only fed once per day, which is the same as before I made any changes. When I first started with the raw food, one of my girls, who is prone to vomiting, tossed it up a few times. I think it was just too different initially. When that happened, I just slowed down the transition for her. She was also less fond of the new food, so that was fine with her. I mixed a larger proportion (~30-40%) of people tuna into her raw food so that she'd eat enough to stay alive. Gradually I cut down the tuna. She had an aversion to chunks of meat until a few days ago. Now she's just fine.  Her sister had an easier time of it all along.

My suggestion would be to make the change more slowly, and also look at the composition of the raw food. If it has big chunks, cut them up smaller for easier eating. When they wolf down big chunks, sometimes they don't stay down as well. You could also add some warm water to create a bit of "gravy" which some cats like to lap up. My sensitive kitty did a lot of licking of the soft parts of the raw chow before she was willing to eat the chunks. I had put in plenty of ground turkey meat and chicken livers, so she was getting more than flavored water.

I've been working with the recipe at catnutrition.org, using chicken and turkey meat so far. The batch last night used calves liver because I'm worried about mela-liver. The texture of the food is a mix of dime-sized chunks of chicken thigh and ground meat with egg, gelatin and supplements.

My sensitive girl hasn't thrown up in about 2 weeks now, which is a huge improvement over her history with SD kibble. She used to toss her cookies every couple of days. I never realized that the grain might not agree with her.

Both of them look terrific now - sleek, soft and energetic. It's worth the aggravation of managing the transition. They won't die from throwing up a few times or being a bit hungry. Hunger will motivate them to eat. Just be sure they don't go too long (past 18-24 hours), because I understand that  their livers can be damaged.

2  Raw Foods / General Discussion about Raw Foods / Re: Do you feed raw to your pets? on: May 11, 2007, 10:47:46 PM
Hi Mary K -

I'm not currently a vegetarian, but have been from time to time. Basically, I prefer a meatless diet, but since I have a household of omnivorous men to feed, I cook meat. Now I've added two carnivorous felines to my kitchen duties! I'm not squeamish about meat, fortunately, and my background is in microbiology, so I'm careful about cross contamination.

The latest on our girls is that after 3 weeks, they are both fully on board with the program. No more tuna temptation, and no more dainty licking of the "icky" chunks of meat. They both go for it happily, leaving their bowls licked clean. Callie looks slimmer and more fit, both girls have great coats, and their eyes are clearer with less runny goop. We've all been happy to find the cat box less smelly too. Foot Foot didn't have any weight to lose, but her coat is softer, and both cats are shedding less, even in the spring heat. Callie used to throw up several times a week, but after the first couple of days getting used to raw meat, she stopped throwing up. We also seem to have pretty well eliminated hairballs.

With the uncertainty over melachicken, I'm limiting my use of chicken livers for a while. Today I used calf liver in the recipe. When I couldn't find any beef liver in the meat case, I asked about it. I was told that it's hard for them to stock beef liver because it is very perishable. However, they stocked very nice calves liver in the freezer case at a price comparable to fresh chicken livers.  I wouldn't have thought to look there, so I'm glad I asked!
3  Cats / General Cat Health Discussion / Re: How often/much do your cats drink? on: May 11, 2007, 12:27:36 PM
Our girls are 8. Typically they take a nice drink when I give them fresh water at dinner time. I seldom see them drink otherwise, with one exception. One of my girls likes to play in the water, so she comes running when I'm brushing my teeth or someone's running a bath. She drinks a little then.

I changed their diet to home-prepared raw food 3 weeks ago. They seem to drink less now than when they ate kibble. (I've also noticed smaller poops, and much less stinky poops - hallelujah!)
4  Raw Foods / General Discussion about Raw Foods / Re: Do you feed raw to your pets? on: May 05, 2007, 10:26:42 PM
I'm feeding raw, and making it myself - as of about 2 weeks ago. We're still in transition, with one kitty needing a bit of people tuna to lure her to her dinner. She's also a little uncomfortable with meat chunks, but every day she does a little better. Her sister is all carnivore at this point, and even mooched some raw chow out of me this morning, when typically they only eat once a day.  I love seeing her contentedly chewing up hunks of raw meat like a little lioness.

Here's what I've been doing and learning:

1. I'm using the cat food recipes at catnutrition.org. Our vet has reviewed and approved the balance of ingredients as healthful and complete. The recipes include careful instructions on how to combine the ingredients, grind/cut up the meat, etc. 

2. I have not invested in a meat grinder that can handle bone, but plan to do so later. My stand mixer has a grinder attachment which is fine for meats alone. I've been buying bonless or de-boning by hand.

3. I have purchased meats at my local markets, just watching for good prices. So far I've used chicken thighs, chicken livers, and ground turkey. 

4. I don't know whether they've been eating melamine-chicken. I hope not. I tend to doubt that the melamine would have been incorporated into the chicken muscle.  My biggest concern is chicken livers, since they filter toxins in the body. I may leave out chicken livers for a while and either supplement the vitamins A&D or use beef liver.

5. There is a list of supplements that are needed to complete the recipe.  I have found them all locally. At first I searched online, and then I realized that they were all available through the Vitamin Shoppe. The Vitamin Shoppe has a couple of local stores. I just drove over and bought them off the shelf - easy sneezy. I'm sure other vitamin stores have good supplies - that's just the most convenient one for me.

6. I realize that many of the supplements are probably sourced from China, regardless of what the bottle says. I'm not happy about it, but it's currently part of our imperfect world. If they're for human consumption, perhaps someone has tested them somewhere along the way, or if a major problem exists, it will have been detected already. When people fall over dead, it attracts attention, after all.

7. When I mix up a batch, I parcel it out into little fridge/freezer containers suitable for about a day's consumption. For my two cats, the 9.5 oz container is about right. I fill it 2/3 full. When using the catnutrition.org recipe for boneless cat food, one batch is enough for about a 2 week supply for my two adult (10 lb) indoor cats. I freeze them (the food containers; not the cats), and every evening take one out of the freezer at dinner time and let it thaw in the fridge until dinner the next day. This quantity thaws nicely in the fridge in 24 hours and is ready for the next feeding.

8. Going forward, I have ordered meats from Hare-today.com. They have chicken hearts available, so I can give the girls a natural source of taurine. I have also ordered up some ground chicken, turkey, and rabbit meat with bones. 

9. The food preparation takes a little time, but it really isn't bad. Preparing a batch that lasts 2 weeks doesn't seem like an excessive time commitment to me. Once you round up the supplements, the rest is relatively easy and quick. Probably the most time consuming thing is de-boning chicken if you buy it bone-in.

10. Hygeine, hygeine, hygeine - When the cats leave food behind, I toss it after 30 minutes. When I prepare their food, I observe careful raw-meat handling precautions and clean up scrupulously. Utensils and containers from their meals go into the dishwasher for a hot, hot cleanup/sterilization. Vegetarians don't usually need to think about this . . .

If I can do this, anyone can. My cats are thriving on it, and I no longer worry about "which cat food is safe".



5  Cats / Cat Food Recipes / Re: Home made diet on: May 05, 2007, 09:22:24 PM
Admittedly, it's just one more data point, but here goes . . .

I've been moving my two cats to a raw food diet over the past 2 weeks, using the recipes at catnutrition.org. The girls are adjusting well - one very well and the other more gradually. They used to eat Science Diet kibble ( original, oral care, hairball formula - mixed together) and a bit of 9-Lives, Sophisticat or Figaro canned food. I had switched to Natural Balance in March, and abandoned commercial pet food when NB started recalling products.  I was also tired of cleaning up vomited kibble, and came to realize grain wasn't agreeing with Callie.

I had the girls at the vet this week, and took time to review the cat food recipe with our vet. He looked over all the ingredients and pointed out the critical importance of B Complex vitamins and taurine. He also mentioned that since B Complex vitamins are water soluble, an excess there wouldn't be harmful, whereas excess A or D vitamins could cause harm.

Overall, he was pleased with the recipe, and said the girls should be just fine eating like this for the rest of their days. They are 8 years old, and in good health. The vet noticed their "great coats" and said that their diet obviously agrees with them. I've also noticed softer coats just in the short time they've been eating raw. (I've also noticed a nice combination of energy and calmness . . . the skitty kitty is calmer, and the sleepy one more playful).

 Our vet is a sensible, knowledgeable sort of fellow, who in my experience is prudent and sensitive to pet owners' concerns. He does not appear to sell pet food, or if he does, it's out of sight. Our cats came from his office originally. We adopted them as part of a feral cat rescue program which our vet supported.  I feel reassured having him look over the recipe and pronounce it sound. I realize that we don't have perfect knowledge, and that in a few years we may have different and better ideas of how to feed our pets. Nonetheless, I trust his judgment and his motivation, and I trust the results I'm seeing in my cats.

 

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