Janielaurel - can you reference the book you mention please?

RE: Taurine - lack of taurine causes in cats is Dilated Cardiomyopathy.  Very, very important to ensure cats get enough taurine.

I personally would not use eggshells in place of bone unless I couldn't get ground bone.  There is more than just calcium in bone, and you'd be removing a lot of nutrients by excluding bone.  I get your argument about heavy metals, but I just don't think the risks outweigh the benefits in this case.  I would wonder how much heavy metal would actually be in chicken bones, for instance.

Regarding the organic vs. non-organic.  I don't think anyone would argue that organic would be the gold standard, but if it comes down to being able to afford organic vs. regular meat and then weigh that against feeding commercial foods, I think the non-organic meat still wins out. 

Geff,

Have you tried wet food for your cats?  I used to feed dry, too.  No more urinary problems since mine have been on 98% wet food.  It's much better to feed wet, particularly for male cats who can block up so quickly.  Been there, done that.  One male blocked with struvite and a female with oxalate.  No UTIs since they have all been on wet food.

Yup, I agree - no dry food for any cat.   Read www.catinfo.org for reasons why, and the connection to common feline diseases

 For cats with CRF, there's info out there now that suggest that the best diet is a wet diet, because it helps keep them properly hydrated which is very important in CRF.  There's some links to articles at this site: http://felineoutreach.org/EducationDetail.asp?cat=KidneyDisease

Just received my copy of Dr. Hodgkins' book "Your Cat, Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life"

Dr. Hodgkin's book

Can't wait to read it!





I just edited the url so it didn't spread the page way out - Therese

BESIDES KEEPING THE CARBS LOW, WHAT ABOUT THE PHOSPHORUS % FOR OVERALL GOOD HEALTH?

sorry, I didn't see this until now.  I'm not too sure on phosphorus, but I've only really heard it mentioned much in relation to kidney failure, so I think it's not too big an issue in cats without kidney failure? 

It should be fine.  I haven't heard of any 9 lives being involved in the recall. 

you should be gradually reducing the amount of canned you mix in until he is eating all raw - is that what you're doing?  I had to do that with one of my cats - it took about 6 weeks to transition him.  at first, I also had to mix a touch of canned into each new batch of raw too, but now they'll eat anything raw I put down. So rest assured, it can be done...just takes patience and persistence!

Davis, How about giving your kitty a little ice-cream now and then!   

not good for cats....all that sugar.

Cats should get their EFAs from animal fats. 

Of course, if they are eating a quality cat food, they already are. So, the addition of a quality vegetable oil for caloric intake would seem to be fine. Remember, his primary reason for adding any oil to the diet will be for the add'l calories.

I would still say that animal fats for additional calories are better than vegetable fats, just as meat is better than carbs.

you can give unsweetened full fat yogurt, wild salmon oil, even a pat of butter  I think cream would probably be ok too, although it might be too close to straight milk and many cats are intolerant of milk.

Wouldn't the same intolerance of cow's milk apply to yogurt and cream?

cream, yes I believe so.  I'm not sure of the mechanism, but yogurt and cheese are different than straight milk, I believe because they are cultured.  so they are often tolerated when milk is not.

CW, I've only had pet kids too , but don't sell yourself short.  You don't actually have to be a parent to know what good parenting is, or to understand nutrition. 

totally agree with you there.  I DO have a son now, he's 2 years old, but I had my own opinions and ideas about parenting long before he was born, and I am putting them into practice now.  some have been modified, yes, because you also learn as you go, but that old "you don't know till you have your own kids" is just a cop out.

persistence is the key, I guess.  I was lucky, it didn't take much to switch from dry to canned for my two, but it took me over 6 weeks to transition to raw from canned for one of mine. (and of course, the one most resistant was my IBD cat who needed it most!)

have you already switched your cat to "meals" instead of free feeding?  I think that helps immensely.

for the particularly hard cats to transition, I've also seen Dr. H mention giving cyproheptadine (an appetite stimulant) to help them want to eat the canned you offer.  that's by prescription, so you'd have to have a vet willing to prescribe it.

I have a friend with a carb-addicted cat, so if you find the magic bullet, let me know so I can pass it along!

Cats should get their EFAs from animal fats.  you can give unsweetened full fat yogurt, wild salmon oil, even a pat of butter  I think cream would probably be ok too, although it might be too close to straight milk and many cats are intolerant of milk.

Here's Dr. Hodgkins' comments on it:
"Remember that vegetable oils do not contain arachidonic acid, which is essential (meaning it must be supplied in the diet) for cats but not for omnivores like people and dogs. So, while the seed oils can be very nutritious for cats in limited amounts, we do need a good source of all of the EFAs for our cats. Animal fats supply all of the EFAs."
link: http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2873

Also, it would be best for weight loss if you could switch your cats over to low carb canned.  Dr. Lisa Pierson has lots of tips for transitioning dry-addicted cats over to canned at her website: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

I belong to another forum for treatment of diabetic cats.  www.yourdiabeticcat.com   Many of those on that site feed Fancy Feast and I have not heard of one problem with it so far.  Of course, they are all feeding low carb varieties of it, and many of the problems were with varieties of food with "gravy"  which tend to be high carb.  Still, I haven't heard of any issues with FF at all.

You can check these links...the first gives nutrient breakdown of canned foods (lots of FF on there) along with carb % (cats should have <10%) and the 2nd is for wheat gluten free varieties of Fancy Feast

http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/canfood.html

http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm

from a cat perspective, the recipe at www.catnutrition.org calls for raw egg YOLKS.  I then cook the whites and add them in too.  So I think I would probably stick to raw yolks only.

Cats are prone to kidney disease because, with feeding of dry food, we are keeping them in a constant state of dehydration.  (read www.catinfo.org - she addresses kidney disease) Dr. Hodgkins does not put cats with kidney disease on a low protein diet.  She has them eat canned food or raw.  I've read about using "phosphorus binders" too.  and she does prescribe a medication for certain cats in CRF. 

another important thing to note - she has said (based on years of evaluating lab results of cats on canned (low carb) or raw food, that she considers kidney values (e.g. BUN, Creatinine) of 20-25% above "normal" ranges to be normal for wet-fed cats, because of the higher protein intake.  So the reference ranges that labs use, are basically based on dry-fed, high-carb cats.

Here are some collected articles and info on kidney disease:
http://www.felineoutreach.org/EducationDetail.asp?cat=KidneyDisease

I will do some digging and see if I can come up with some of Dr. Hodgkins' posts regarding treatment of CRF

Furthermore, as I think about this, just because they are doing this doesn't mean they need it (as you say).  there's a condition called Pica where people eat inappropriate things like dirt, clay, sponges etc because of either neuroses or a deficiency in their diet (e.g. anemia) So if you use the argument that they nibble grass etc so therefore they need veggies in their diet, does that mean that people need dirt in their diet too?

Of course.  I couldn't agree more.  Look at all the things that humans eat that they don't "need".  And it's so funny that you mentioned pica, because I almost included that in my post.  By the way, I personally was not using it as an argment, since I believe as you do, but only pointing out that when people say "never", it just isn't true.  The reason for the bizarre behavior is another matter.

I got that you weren't using it as an argument.  I was just expanding on what you were saying.  It's interesting to have these conversations, because it really starts you thinking about it. (not that I haven't been thinking about it in depth for the past year)