They did send me a detailed guaranteed analysis in response to my request.  I can't think how to post it all here without retyping since it is an excel spreadsheet.  Here are representative values for the canned cat food, organic turkey and turkey liver flavor:

Protein 10%
Fat 8%
Carbs (sic) 1%
Calcium 0.55%
Phosphorus 0.40%
Magnesium 0.04%
Ash 2.5%
Moisture 78%

Looks pretty good on paper--my only concerns are: 1. slightly high magnesium for a former struvite crystals cat, and 2. carbs are not the same as fiber--I've got to think the 1% they report refers to fiber content.  I tend to use this as a shortcut to buying low-carb foods, but I even I know you can do more exact calculations, see:

http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/foodfaq.html

But, as I say, it looks pretty good on paper, and I might give it a try. It's so hard to find truly carnivorous canned foods.

I did order a case of the Instinctive choice canned cat food.  My impression is that it is a high quality grain-free food.  My diabetic cat used to a carnivorous diet liked it a lot, but the former dry food addict is less enthusiastic.  I'm considering buying it again but the downsides are: expense, since only comes in 3 oz cans, and having to order online.

I will say it smells a lot and is floating in water, but this was not a downside for my cats--they like and require lots of extra moisture.

Garypen--I think we are saying the same thing.  Maybe I wasn't being clear--sorry.
I agree, I think they go thru the skin and into the bladder.  It's hard to count all the times I've had to do this between both cats, but it must be at least 10 and no problems so far.

Lacy--I'm sorry if we are scaring you--sounds like I feel needle collection is safe and Geff feels squeezing is safe, but we both agree the vets will do free urine collection when possible.  So, I wouldn't let that stop you from getting to the cat to the vet.

Geff--I'm glad about the good outcome for your cat.  Mine's an indoor and was kind of girly to start with, so he doesn't seem to miss his member.  I guess we were lucky he came home so soon--I think he was so sick prior to surgery that he was very cooperative and just felt a ton better afterwards.  What do you think the problem with the Hills was?  Their food tends to be heavy in grains, maybe it raised the pH to the point where it was easier for bacteria to form?  Gosh, sorry about your eye problem!

Hi Lacy,

There are many potential ways to get a urine sample, but it seems most likely they would use the special collection litter (looks like plastic balls), or do a cystocentesis (sp?) where they use a needle thru the bladder wall.  They almost definitely would have to do the latter to look for bacteria, or else the sample wouldn't be sterile. 

The only experience I have had with squeezing the bladder is if the cat is not actually blocked but for some reason can't get urine out on it's own (a stretched-out bladder or temporary sphincter problem).  They had to squeeze my cat's bladder for this reason 3-4 times a day for about 5 days, and I can tell you he did not like it, but I felt like they were being careful with it.  I just heard of someone who had to do this for the rest of their dog's life after he was in a car accident, and apparently the owners and dog adapted to this okay.

I have had many cystocentesis collections of urine done on both cats and never a problem so far.  I assume it's a pretty small gauge needle.  Hope that puts your mind at ease about getting a urine sample done.  I don't have any ideas about the pooping problem--sorry.

One more thought... I was nitpicking about the initial cause of crystals/blockage having more to do with urine concentration and inflammation than bacteria, at least in young cats.

But it just occurred to me why Geff has had to be so vigilant of infections since.  If a male cat HAS had the perineal urethrostomy surgery, then they have a greatly enlarged opening and are more susceptible to getting bacterial urinary tract infections afterwards.

We're only 2 weeks post-surgery, but it sounds like I'll have to keep the litter box ultraclean and take the cat for urine cultures fairly regularly or if there's the slightest risk of anything wrong.  (It's a fair tradeoff, though considering his chance of ever peeing on his own again was questionable before the surgery, due to extreme complications.)

Back to the reason I came to this thread.  Trying to decide if it is safe to feed my cats the canned California Natural cat food I bought them before the Menu foods cross-contamination scandal.  Maybe I'll start a new thread for canned Cal Nat...

Cheers, everyone!

Hi all,

Very interesting discussion and I completely agree that any cat straining to urinate should be rushed to the vet immediately.  I did want to clarify that the current accepted term for this problem is FLUTD, feline lower urinary tract disease.

The reason this is important is that at least in young cats, actual infection with bacteria is only the cause in 1-5% of cases, so antibiotics will have little effect.  UTI's are the cause more often in older cats, but often it is mainly an issue of concentration (specific gravity) of the urine, and/or pH level.  It's important to find out these two things from your vet, and also the makeup of the crystals, if any are present: magnesium ammonium phosphate, or calcium oxalate.

See:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/feline_lower_urinary_tract_dis.html

for more info.  It's a complicated problem, and the best overall solution I have heard is to feed a canned, carnivorous food and encourage as much water intake as possible to dilute the urine and cause less irritation of the bladder walls.  The web page I'm posting links to some more scenarios for treatment depending on the source of your cat's urinary problems.

I was somewhat encouraged to hear Geff (I think) also has a kitty that had to have his male organ removed, and is presumably doing fine.  My 1.5 year old just had this surgery, and while I was really apprehensive at the time, he seems to be doing remarkably better now that he is no longer forming struvite/mucus plugs that block urination completely.  As a young cat, there was NO involvement of any kind of bacterial infection in his case, so I guess that's why I prefer the more general term FLUTD.

Second email did the trick--I got a detailed guaranteed analysis and nice apology from the company.  I'll post it later if I have time.

Called the company and they said it is made at Menu Foods Ohio Plant.  They also said it is in their contract that the product has to be made first thing in the morning when the lines are clean.

I think I'm going to stick with it for now--I'm more afraid of grains and American Nutrition products than Menu at the moment.  I like the highly carnivorous nature of the food.  Too bad it only comes in 3 oz cans.

I like the look of Instinctive Choice canned cat food.  Seems to be from the Healthy Pet Net company like Life's Abundance.  However, I can only find info on where LA is made, not IC (Ohio Pet Foods and Menu).   Does anyone have any more information or personal experience with this brand?  Thanks!

I really liked the look of the canned cat food (mainly meat and well water).  I emailed them over a week ago for more info, like the detailed guaranteed analysis, and haven't got anything but a standard "not affected by menu foods recall" autoreply.

hmmph...

I thought Artemis might be the answer for a grain-free, non-Menu, non-ANI product.  But, since I am also managing diabetes and urine crystals, I need to be careful about guaranteed analysis of fiber and magnesium.  I was shocked to see their magnesium max listed as 0.25%!  I emailed the company to ask if this could be a mistake, as magnesium levels are commonly around 0.025% with other companies.  Here's what I received for an answer:

"For labeling laws, we have to state a certain maximum percentage, but our product when put through computer analysis testing, the magnesium levels are:
 
Seafood= 0.025%
Turkey= 0.031%
Chicken= 0.033%"

While I appreciated their response, I don't feel I can trust their food now.  What labeling laws say that you need to list maximums AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE higher than the actual values?!  Since other companies seem to have no problems listing reasonable magnesium levels on their cans, all I can conclude is that Artemis is  giving themselves room to be inconsistent in their production process.  Not for me.