PFT, now you're talking my other language and something that I think is very important to factor into the equation of any requests made of pet food companies.

As I've said from the get-go, we are fully aware that garlic is in fact "toxic" but we are careful to put emphasis on those quotation marks and to be honest... no, we did not know that it was such over 10 years ago when we created the food.

That being said, I think Back to Basics (with a lot of recommendation from myself and also -congrats- you guys) is slowly moving into the direction of trying to make a great food even better by paying more attention to the concerns and requests of the public. Our current midset is actually an expansion of the brand called (tentativley) Back to Basics "options". The suffix is to imply that it is an extension with the same heart and integrity of our original, but appealing to more in-depth conscious minds. In addition to this we are also planning for ever-increasing transparency via our website first (cheaper.. we ARE a small and therefore limted funds company still) and eventually our packaging.

It will take some time... only because we again ARE smaller and thus can't snap our fingers for results like some of the big boys, but I promise you that this is our goal.

I just got home and dinner is ready so I'll have to follow up on this tommorrow sometime, I'm glad to see this post revisited and as with all things and hoping for the best possible outcome in the end.

Cheers!
-Michael

Great Chat! Thanks Therese and everyone else who was there!

Hey everyone,

Sorry for my absence lately. We're in the midst of updating a lot of the graphics, etc. for our website, brochures, and misc marketing materials... I'm tied well in with our artistic direction so my time's been pretty monopolized lately.

Back to Basics is not affected by the recent recalls of SmartPak and Dr. Fosters and Smith... Our product is ran on seperate lines and so there is no risk of cross-contamination.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, we've had our food tested as a precautionary measure and all tests have proven negative for contamination. Our food is ran on different machinery out of a necessity that preceeds the recall, we run b2b seperately because we export to the Pacific Rim and the countries we ship to test for "Residual Ruminants"... therefore our product cannot be ran on the same machinery as any product that uses Beef or Lamb... this excludes us from any risk of cross contamination with the 2 brands that were affected at CVPF.

Let me know if you have any further questions, as I've mentioned though I am SUPER busy lately and so if I cannot get back to you right away it's just because I haven't had time to read through the forums here... if you have something that needs to be addressed immediately, please email me at mikew@beowulfs.com

Thank you,
Michael Weed
Beowulf Natural Feeds
Back to Basics

Hey again,

Listen, I flew off the handle a bit yesterday and I apologize. I've been putting in close to 60 hours a week the last month because of this recall thing (good for business, just very strenuous assuring over 30,000 customers that we're unaffected and why we rock).

I've evaluated my own posts and am kinda shocked by how vehemently I was trying to defend China. I'm guessing it stems from my desire to have faith in humanity, regardless of geography or goverment. I also am a fan of good international relationships because there is a LOT to be had from the rest of the world... by confining ourselves we only deny ourselves.

BUT... though I openly admit to being a fan of a global trade progression in general, there are obviously important issues that need to be addressed before we can proceed toward that platform. Most importantly, regulation.

I still don't place any exuberant amount of BLAME on China as I cannot fathom that the people there responsible for making the decision to add melamine are any different than the people here that say they can reach similar levels of real food proteins by utilizing by-products in the pet feed industry... it's corner-cutting and it doesn't happen any more in China than it does here. We are apparently just a bit safer about it.

So in light of your very enlightening opinions and my own recent research, I take a new stand in that I agree that importations of food product from China SHOULD be halted until their regulatory process is updated to match at least our own (which could use some improvement).

And I'm not going anywhere (sorry to say to some , I was just over-worked and touchy yesterday... thanks for your support despite this, you guys rock.

I appreciate all of your feedback and have taken the liberty of using posts from this forum and others to give due consideration to public concerns at out next quarterly budget meeting in June.

FYI: Even the smallest change in formulation is a HUGE expense... and for the pennies we would save per unit on removing an ingredient, thousands of dollars are required for new design plates for the bags... not to mention our existing bag stock would have to be run through first.

This is not to say that we wouldn't willingly spend any necessary amount to make an important change to our formula, we would in a heartbeat. But there is simply no necessity in this case and the potential benefits of garlic still far outweigh the highly unlikely event that your pet will ever ingest enough in one sitting to raise toxicity to a level where it becomes dangerous.

If the garlic is present in concentrations low enough that it doesn't harm the cats, then it is also likely to be present in concentrations too low to have any beneficial effect.

Think about this... Limes, Oranges, and eggs (just to name a very few) ingested in very large quantites can raise Vitamin C and A levels to a point of dangerous toxicity in humans. HOWEVER, it is common knowledge that a single Orange is indeed very beneficial for you. Thus to think that benefit and detriment are on equal scale is not accurate.

I've also spent the last few days diggin for reports of illnesses or death related to garlic consumption by dogs or cats and have yet to uncover even one, not to say that there may not be a few out there (just as there will likely be the same due to other safe ingredients), just that I have not found them.

Anything in excess is harmful. Water is an absolute necessity, but too much will kill you.
This is our current stance on garlic unless and until there can be enough of a case for "potential" harm to outweigh the already established benefits (and I mean beyond the wives-tales of repelling fleas)... and going from hundreds of years of use in domestic animals with no negative consequences thus far, I don't think that case will be drawn up anytime soon.

I am very aware that as our technology and human potential increase (more in the last 10 than last 100 combined), there will be many things brought to light that where hereto unheard of, but I am careful not to ride the hype... once the "facts" are on paper it becomes contemplation, but not until that paper matches reality will it move beyond contemplation into consideration.

Here is an exact description of our Natural Flavorings as submitted by Chenango Valley Pet Foods on August 24th, 2006 (no changes have been made since then).

"The Natural Flavors that are used on the products produced by Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Inc. are comprised of a mix of various chicken flavors derived from fresh, clean, part sof slaughtered chickens that are normally sold into the human food segment, such as hearts and livers. These flavors come from USDA inspected facilities."

Natural Flavors are added to increase the palatbility fo the food. While we use only wholesome ingredients to create the kibble, the cooking and drying process often dampens the taste.

Much like cooking for for yourself, the extrusion process will naturally reduce palatibility, digestibility, and nurient content. This is easily compensated for by adding chelated vitamins and minerals, digestive enzymes, and of course natural flavors (note: not ALL companies make this extra effort). The result is a dry food with an extended shelf-life (naturally preserved of course) that has all of the benefits of a raw food, plus the balance of ingredients that raw foods cannot (often) match.

I welcome any further questions about our ingredients or natural additives.

-Mike

Hey Guys,

Indeed, we are proud to have Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Inc. as our sole manufacturer. Before you lend to any confusion in the way you reference my defense of China being generalized as some evil empire and the fact that CVPF acquired a small amount of RPC from Wilbur-Ellis (China import), let me just put out a few facts:

Chenango Valley Pet Foods recalled the FOUR of it's over 100 lines of food as per the recommendation by the FDA for anyone who received even the smallest amount of suspect ingredients from Wilbur-Ellis. The foods recalled are not affiliated with Back to Basics and are run on seperate lines as are most brands.

Of the recalled foods, ZERO have tested positive for melamine.

Back to Basics uses NONE of the ingredients under investigation for contamination.

We have sent product samples to a 3rd party testing laboratory (Central Analytical Laboratories) to have our end product tested for melamine and other contaminants. We've done this completely as an assurance to our customers and are not even considered by the FDA for mandatory testing. Our end product tests negative and thus, no matter what the ingredient, source, supplier, or manufacturer... there factually and beyond doubt are no non-specified agents in our food.

100% of our ingredients are sourced from Human-Grade US food suppliers and not one thing that goes into our food comes from outside of the US. I defend China only from a personal view and have absolutely no reason to from a company perspective.

This is why it's important to keep a steady head when reading through the plethora of lists and announcements... otherwise sweeping generalizations are made about the efficacy of entire coutries, companies that are unaffected by an event get lumped in through mere association, and worst of all... fervor runs rampant potentially destroying fact and replacing it with public gossip.

We'll be putting detailed information about our manufacturer, manufacturing process, ingredient sources, etc. up on our website in the coming weeks and invite anyone who wants to base their decisions on facts to check out our efforts to increase transparency and increase awareness about the pet food industry.

And for the record I've never "bragged" up China. To make a statement as such would be similar to say that if I don't support a war, that I am unpatriotic. I am only doing my best to defend generalizations against an entire country based on your opinions of the efficacy of certain of their operations. Take a good, long look at our own regulatory systems and checks before you pass judgement on another's... in regards to capitalism (even everything that has gone wrong) China may as well be a carbon-copy of the US.

Mike you are totally wrong in every way to brag up China the way you do. 

I just read that Chenango Valley Pet Foods has recalled some products due to tainted Chinese ingredients. Doesn't Chenango manufacture for Mike's company? It doesn't mean that Back to Basics has any of those ingredients. But, I'm just saying.

Nothing in what you've said above was misquoted or wrong, but contexting statements together in the way you have has dangerous potential for creating misinformation into a reader's mind.

My intention is to be a voice of at least one aspect of the industry that I feel the public is be eager to question. I've offered nothing but facts about the industry, export/import, manufacturing, low-grade ingredient vulnerability, etc. but rather than being "questioned" about these things, I'm frequently told that I'm just plain wrong by people whose only experienece in the industry is what they read on other forums.

My personal opinons seem to be against the tide of thought here, and the facts I offer in regards to ingredients and the industry seem to be casually swept aside in favor of the latest thing that's been heard, with little to no consideration for it potentially being the truth.

I guess honestly my original thought was that if I came out and jived with the public it would serve as stark contrast to the companies who hold their secrets close to their chest thus affording us a higher credibility and support, rather I seem to have put myself in the crosshairs of many who would quickly shoot down anything I say as corporate defensiveness or plugging.

I think I'm gonna take a break from this for a while.
I wish all of you nothing but the best inb your search for a safe, quality pet food.

-Mike

Article was copied exactly from the website and I didn't write it, so if the quotes don't satisfy you... sorry.

Here's something I can tell you personally... I am and always have been a fan of observable facts.
A lot of hype and anti-hype changes on a day to day basis because of new findings, lists, studies etc... what's been true for a thousand years is completely and totally wrong tommorrow. The common bond with most of this is that it's all on paper and tested in a sterile lab somewhere without actually feeding said ingredient to any kind of animal... I understand why it's done, but I also see where it can goes wrong.

Want an extreme? Melamine added to wheat Gluten increases protein on paper... IN Fact, the FDA and partners still can't explain why this is causing kidney failure in animals because on PAPER, it doesn't add up! Yet the observable tell me that melamine is DEFINITELY harmful.

I've heard all this nonsense about garlic being bad for pets for about 3 years now, just as I've heard the same earful of misinfo about corn being bad... I'll tell you now, I haven't read the same journals, reports or studies you probably have... but I've been dealing with a b2b customer base of over 30,000 people nationwide whose pets have simply NEVER been anything less than completely healthy in regards to nutrition. I also feed my own 2 cats and dog a food with garlic and corn in it and my cats have shiny coats and full liveliness, while my dog has ranked #16 in the country (and yet he STILL gets into the laundry baskets! grr).

I guess no matter how many websites you try and direct me to or new findings you try and show me, you can't tell me the sky is green when I look up and see blue every day. And when scientists have been telling me garlic is good for pets for the last few decades and I've been able to witness the benefits first-hand, I'm ceratinly not going to buckle under a few new pieces of paper that tell me otherwise. I'll stick with the ingredients that have proven themselves for generations.

That's just my take... I encourage you not to feed any ingredient you're not comfortable with. Period.

From www.backtobasicspetfood.com:

Garlic has been used by holistic vets for decades as a natural flea treatment and antioxidant. For thousands of years Gasrlic (Allium sativum) has been used for medicinal puposes. The Egyptians, Greeks, Babylonians and Romans used the healing properties of garlic. Records show that the Sanskirt used garlic medicinally about 5,000 years ago and it has been used for at least 3,000 years in Chinese medicine. According to the Whole Dog Journal, small amounts of garlic not only act as a natural flea repellant, but also for it's wonderful antifungal and antibacterial properties. Garlic also promotes the production of white blood cells and thereby acts as an immune system booster for low or compromised immune systems and may benefit animals with diabetes by helping to reduce blood-sugar levels. "Garlic can be used to stimulate and support immune function, trigger gastric juices for better digestion, encourage the growth of friendly bacteria and prevent infections." The Garlic Cure (McCleery & Sons, 2002)

Allicin is the active component in the root bulb (cloves) of the garlic plant which triggers the healing properties. Allicin is formed when alliin, a sulfur-containg amino acid, comes in contact with the enzyme alliinase (i.e. when raw garlic is chopped, crushed or chewed).

Garlic also contains thiosulphate. In extremely high doses, thiosulfate can be toxic; it can cause hemolytic anemia in dogs and cats. Remember, this is NOT the amount of garlic you find in dog or cat food, treats, supplements or even left-overs from dinner with garlic in it. Our pets would have to eat the equivalent of approximately 20 garlic cloves (cats) or 50 garlic cloves (dogs) in one sitting to be harmful! If your pet did happen to get into a basket of garlic cloves, the symptoms for hemolytic anemia can develop within a few hours to a few days. Signs include vomitting, diarrhea, weakness, depression and a loss of appitite. If you see these symptoms in your pet and you're missing a lot of garlic cloves, call your vet.

..."it takes long-term feeding of a significant amount of garlic to cause anemia. As with most things, the old saying "Moderation in all things" is well heeded in this case." (Veterinarians Guide to Natural Remedies for Cats: Safe and Effective Alternative Treatments and Healing Techniques from the Nation's Top Holistic Veterinarians)

Remember that anything in large quantities can be bad. For instance, taking a Vitamin E supplement every day is beneficial and healthy... but if a whole bottle was taken at one time it could be fatal. Not feeding foods that contain garlic is merely denying your animals the benefits it can provide them. Back to Basics has been feeding animals for over eleven years and we have never had any problems with the garlic in our food. If ther is any rule of thumb to follow just remember to only feed foods that use whole, human grade ingredients; stay away from any by-products, fillers, chemical preservatives and beet pulp. If you follow those rules your pet will be healthier and you will have peace of mind.

At Back to Basics we are proud to use small amounts of garlic in our products because of the natural health benefits and taste benefits!
 
Sources:

The Garlic Cure (McCleery & Sons, 2002)

Veterinarians Guide to Natural Remedies for Cats: Safe and Effective Alternative Treatments and Healing Techniques from the Nation's Top Holistic Veterinarians (Garlic for Cats?, July 20, 2005)

The History of Garlic: Nature's Ancient Superfood (Kristen Lasinski, June 2005)
 

Feed a food that:
a. does not contain wheat gluten, corn gluten or Rice protein... for obvious reasons.
b. has an ingredient list you can understand and seems wholesome to you (may take some preliminary study)

You'll be fine if you do that... only "a" is absolutely necessary, but "b" will make for a healthier pet overall, not to mention more peace of mind for yourself.

You'll find a lot of paranoid musings on the net so be careful to take most opinions on what is good and what is not with a grain of salt. Make your own informed decisions and don't worry about anything that doesn't make real sense to you. If we were to shy away from everything that everyone said they thought was no good.. there would be nothing left.

-Mike

Mike from Back to Basics here, and before I start... no, we do not use any ingredients from China...

I'm noticing a worrying pattern on these forums, and while I certainly sympathize and understand where it's coming from, it bothers me a bit to hear China being generalized as an entirely untrustworthy country.

Ingredients all coming from the same source in China have been found to be contaminated... this source should be dealt with just as the US companies who have added RPC to foods without the knowledge of the brand company should be dealt with. The "source" however is not China, it's a company IN China!

Yes, our testing should be more rigorous and there are definitely fingers to be pointing in this debacle, but I am seeing WAY too much generalization about China to feel comfortable... China has NOTHING to gain by doing something like this with harm intended and EVERYTHING to lose (as is being well voiced).

Melamine appears to have been added to these ingredients to increase the protein percentage thus making the ingredients more valuable... this is no different than the corner-cutting tricks the US pulls all the time in pet food... and big surprise, when you mess with an ingredient too much something bad is bound to happen (my condolences to all those affected). I guarantee that this "plastic" that had been added to up protein would have been a HUGE success with our US companies had it not proven to be physically harmful. For the same exact reason that the US allows companies to fill your pet food bags with beaks, talons, viscera and feathers (they all read positive on the protein meter) are companies trying to dig even lower and cheaper to increase the same intended effect.

For christ's sake, there are pet foods out there that cannot guarantee that they do not contain OTHER PETS!!!! Seriously, it's legal to use rendered roadkill, etc. in pet food so long as it's marked as a meat by-product...

Getting deep into pet food is a scary place, and there are a lot of things down here that will make you question every food purchase you ever make again... but let's not be so quick to point the finger at an entire country... it's just silly. I was on the paranoid bandwagon when this first hit as well, but as soon as other countries started being affected I knew that the harm was not intentional... stupid, wrong, wildly irresponsible...yes, but not intentional.

There is nothing wrong with vitamins from China... period. I'd stay away from animal ingredients from another country only because of the transport time... but to swear off anything from an entire country because one bad thing came from there is nonsensical to me.

From a capitalistic view, these irrational ravings will only harm everyone.
BUT... if you wanna stop getting their junk because they're a bunch of communists.. THAT I can understand

The Export example is only based on my personal experience.
I have not dealt with every country so I cannot tell you if there are those with lower standards of testing, but for thos that I do deal with (and even some with very poor economies), the testing required for every run is stringent enough that it would definitely have caught any contaminants such as melamine and the container would have been rejected.

You nailed it on the head with industry transparency though, this in my opinion is the single most important factor in all business including and especially goverment. If the entire mechanic is visble to the public and is accurately regulated, then we will not have to worry about hunting down the culprits should a fault occur as they will have to have been completely visible from the get-go. And if all were apparent from the start I wouldn't have to defend the manufacturing process in general because it would be open knowledge for everyone.

I appreciate your well-thought criticisms and know that it's these type of mental jousts that benefit both parties involved and leave both knowing even just a bit more than they had before

I've got to hunt down Health Certificate for Singapore now, this debacle has really slowed
down the normal USDA response time and made my job a little more hellish... even the unafftected are getting shafted by this thing from a mere operational standpoint. Thanks for your insights and opinions, I'll see y'all a little later

-Mike

Of course you are correct Cindy, hence my statement:

"there certainly are probably a few foods out there that can meet your expectations, but I feel it important to try and dissuade you from the thinking that you'll ONLY find quality in completely self-owned operations..."

Hopefully this will become the new paradigm for pet foods and your heart and mind are certainly in the right place, the fact of the matter is what's unfortunate... and that is that these facilities are nigh non-existant.

You never hear about the manufacturers in relation to the food though, and maybe that will soon change in light of this recall... it would be a good day indeed when the general public can first find a reputable manufacturer of pet foods and then proceed to make their selection of food from within that parameter. There are damn good manufacturers out there, some who deal primarily with only high quality ingredients... there is one in particular I know of that refuses to even include certain commonly used  ingredients in their lineup even though it would surely spell increased profits for them, and I'm sure there are others like them.

I really hope to see some changes in the labeling laws of pet foods, I'm against the tide on that one for the most part as a pet food employee because we and many others would benefit while it would definitely put a thorn in the side of the majority of foods.

Cindy,

You make a very valid point about the lack of testing for pet foods within the USA.
And of course I do not question anyone's concern with what's in pet food, I addressed the idea of sole ownership of production and thus used the argument of WHAT only vs. WHERE.

While our current import testing regulations are appearing to be at a lower than acceptable level, you may find it interesting to know that there may be a higher level of regulation for foods that EXPORT outside of the USA. As I pointed out in my original post, getting food out of the US and into another country is no walk in the park... I spend probably 3 weeks on each order just dealing with paperwork and acquiring testing results/certificates from the USDA. Because of this, it may be that you can find more trust in a company who also sells outside of the USA as those foods are regularly tested due to export necessity and not just for quality assurance.

I'd go into length about how "certain" foods take even further precautions and measures to ensure quality, but because I can only think of one... *wink* I risk crossing into the advertising line (which I may have already... damn I hate being a pet food employee, have to tread lightly)

I guess the underlying theme I am constantly trying to address is that it's important to not throw away the good stuff with the garbage just because we're upset.

Kudos to all for being so involved and expanding the horizons of public pet food awareness... Not even one death is acceptable from what is supposed to provide life and the bigger this thing gets blown open, the better... just be careful of the stray fire when yer guns are 'a blazin!

-Mike

I'd like to make a quick amendum to my previous post:

I am not heralding for ALL manufacturers, just the process itself and the reality of the operation. There are certainly manufacturers such as American Nutrition who, if what Natural Balance claims is true and there was never RPC in their food, are certainly soley to blame for poor and questionable practices... but this an exception to the rule, not the rule itself.